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[Music]
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00:00:06 [Music] from the dark web to your radio dial you
00:00:09 from the dark web to your radio dial you

00:00:09 from the dark web to your radio dial you were listening to cyber talk radio on
00:00:11 were listening to cyber talk radio on

00:00:11 were listening to cyber talk radio on news 1200 WOAI
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[Music]
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welcome to cyber talk radio
00:00:30 welcome to cyber talk radio

00:00:30 welcome to cyber talk radio I'm your host Bret Pyatt the 20 year
00:00:32 I'm your host Bret Pyatt the 20 year

00:00:32 I'm your host Bret Pyatt the 20 year internet security veteran this week
00:00:35 internet security veteran this week

00:00:35 internet security veteran this week we're gonna be talking we're gonna title
00:00:36 we're gonna be talking we're gonna title

00:00:36 we're gonna be talking we're gonna title the episode proximity security but we'll
00:00:38 the episode proximity security but we'll

00:00:38 the episode proximity security but we'll be talking about how packets go across
00:00:40 be talking about how packets go across

00:00:40 be talking about how packets go across the internet we're gonna get a little
00:00:42 the internet we're gonna get a little

00:00:42 the internet we're gonna get a little nerdy so stick with us but we'll work
00:00:45 nerdy so stick with us but we'll work

00:00:45 nerdy so stick with us but we'll work through the intro to explain why this
00:00:47 through the intro to explain why this

00:00:47 through the intro to explain why this matters too to everyone out there and
00:00:49 matters too to everyone out there and

00:00:49 matters too to everyone out there and then for the engineers or other folks
00:00:52 then for the engineers or other folks

00:00:52 then for the engineers or other folks like us out in the audience we're gonna
00:00:54 like us out in the audience we're gonna

00:00:54 like us out in the audience we're gonna explain some novel stuff that my guest
00:00:57 explain some novel stuff that my guest

00:00:57 explain some novel stuff that my guest and his company are working on so bill
00:00:59 and his company are working on so bill

00:00:59 and his company are working on so bill thank you for joining us today
00:01:01 thank you for joining us today

00:01:01 thank you for joining us today absolutely pleasure to be here and to
00:01:03 absolutely pleasure to be here and to

00:01:03 absolutely pleasure to be here and to talk about our new product yeah so bill
00:01:07 talk about our new product yeah so bill

00:01:07 talk about our new product yeah so bill go ahead and share a little bit about
00:01:08 go ahead and share a little bit about

00:01:09 go ahead and share a little bit about your background and then and kind of
00:01:10 your background and then and kind of

00:01:10 your background and then and kind of what led you to the the founding of hop
00:01:13 what led you to the the founding of hop

00:01:13 what led you to the the founding of hop zero well I've done a lot of work in the
00:01:17 zero well I've done a lot of work in the

00:01:17 zero well I've done a lot of work in the military space and I was actually
00:01:19 military space and I was actually

00:01:19 military space and I was actually talking at a military cyber symposium
00:01:22 talking at a military cyber symposium

00:01:22 talking at a military cyber symposium conference just outside of st. Louis on
00:01:25 conference just outside of st. Louis on

00:01:25 conference just outside of st. Louis on June 28 2016 while I was waiting my turn
00:01:31 June 28 2016 while I was waiting my turn

00:01:31 June 28 2016 while I was waiting my turn to speak I was listening to other
00:01:33 to speak I was listening to other

00:01:33 to speak I was listening to other speakers generals and other leaders in
00:01:35 speakers generals and other leaders in

00:01:35 speakers generals and other leaders in the military complex bemoaning how state
00:01:39 the military complex bemoaning how state

00:01:39 the military complex bemoaning how state actors and other folks are basically
00:01:42 actors and other folks are basically

00:01:42 actors and other folks are basically eating their lunch getting into their
00:01:44 eating their lunch getting into their

00:01:45 eating their lunch getting into their data exfiltrating it and I said to
00:01:48 data exfiltrating it and I said to

00:01:48 data exfiltrating it and I said to myself at that moment I can fix this so
00:01:52 myself at that moment I can fix this so

00:01:52 myself at that moment I can fix this so the next day June 29th I began work on
00:01:56 the next day June 29th I began work on

00:01:56 the next day June 29th I began work on the patent for hop sphere radius
00:01:58 the patent for hop sphere radius

00:01:58 the patent for hop sphere radius security which limits how far data
00:02:02 security which limits how far data

00:02:02 security which limits how far data packets can travel so we're gonna go
00:02:05 packets can travel so we're gonna go

00:02:05 packets can travel so we're gonna go ahead and see if we can do a radio
00:02:07 ahead and see if we can do a radio

00:02:07 ahead and see if we can do a radio explanation of this so and I'll I'll do
00:02:10 explanation of this so and I'll I'll do

00:02:10 explanation of this so and I'll I'll do my understanding and then you can reach
00:02:12 my understanding and then you can reach

00:02:12 my understanding and then you can reach over and knock me on the head if I get
00:02:14 over and knock me on the head if I get

00:02:14 over and knock me on the head if I get some errors here so I think everyone out
00:02:17 some errors here so I think everyone out

00:02:17 some errors here so I think everyone out there and our listening audience has
00:02:18 there and our listening audience has

00:02:18 there and our listening audience has used a web browser before and visited a
00:02:20 used a web browser before and visited a

00:02:20 used a web browser before and visited a website so if you're going from your
00:02:21 website so if you're going from your

00:02:21 website so if you're going from your cell phone to that website or your
00:02:23 cell phone to that website or your

00:02:23 cell phone to that website or your computer to a website you're also
00:02:26 computer to a website you're also

00:02:26 computer to a website you're also probably experienced at your house or
00:02:28 probably experienced at your house or

00:02:28 probably experienced at your house or your office there's some router or cable
00:02:30 your office there's some router or cable

00:02:30 your office there's some router or cable modem or some other thing there so if
00:02:33 modem or some other thing there so if

00:02:33 modem or some other thing there so if you think about going from your phone or
00:02:35 you think about going from your phone or

00:02:35 you think about going from your phone or your computer to that first router
00:02:37 your computer to that first router

00:02:37 your computer to that first router that's a hop and as you go across the
00:02:40 that's a hop and as you go across the

00:02:40 that's a hop and as you go across the that device in your house or your office
00:02:43 that device in your house or your office

00:02:43 that device in your house or your office connects up to something that your
00:02:45 connects up to something that your

00:02:45 connects up to something that your internet provider has that they call
00:02:47 internet provider has that they call

00:02:47 internet provider has that they call that their edge device but that's
00:02:48 that their edge device but that's

00:02:48 that their edge device but that's another hop and if you bounce across
00:02:50 another hop and if you bounce across

00:02:50 another hop and if you bounce across from here to all let's say central China
00:02:53 from here to all let's say central China

00:02:53 from here to all let's say central China you might go for 22 hops but if you're
00:02:55 you might go for 22 hops but if you're

00:02:55 you might go for 22 hops but if you're gonna go from say here in San Antonio
00:02:57 gonna go from say here in San Antonio

00:02:57 gonna go from say here in San Antonio where we're broadcasting cyber talk
00:02:59 where we're broadcasting cyber talk

00:02:59 where we're broadcasting cyber talk radio and if you're listening to us on I
00:03:00 radio and if you're listening to us on I

00:03:00 radio and if you're listening to us on I heart streaming thank you very much for
00:03:02 heart streaming thank you very much for

00:03:03 heart streaming thank you very much for listening outside the audience if you're
00:03:04 listening outside the audience if you're

00:03:04 listening outside the audience if you're on 1200 W AI we appreciate our wonderful
00:03:08 on 1200 W AI we appreciate our wonderful

00:03:08 on 1200 W AI we appreciate our wonderful live listening audience they're on a
00:03:09 live listening audience they're on a

00:03:09 live listening audience they're on a great AM radio as well if you're going
00:03:12 great AM radio as well if you're going

00:03:12 great AM radio as well if you're going maybe to that iHeartRadio website which
00:03:14 maybe to that iHeartRadio website which

00:03:14 maybe to that iHeartRadio website which is here in the US you might be going for
00:03:16 is here in the US you might be going for

00:03:16 is here in the US you might be going for six hops or eight hops or ten hops but
00:03:18 six hops or eight hops or ten hops but

00:03:18 six hops or eight hops or ten hops but you're certainly not going twenty two
00:03:20 you're certainly not going twenty two

00:03:20 you're certainly not going twenty two hops so even those nation-state actors
00:03:24 hops so even those nation-state actors

00:03:24 hops so even those nation-state actors if I was a government in across one of
00:03:28 if I was a government in across one of

00:03:28 if I was a government in across one of the oceans from the US do I have control
00:03:30 the oceans from the US do I have control

00:03:30 the oceans from the US do I have control over the number of hops packet goes
00:03:32 over the number of hops packet goes

00:03:32 over the number of hops packet goes across the internet as a state nation no
00:03:35 across the internet as a state nation no

00:03:35 across the internet as a state nation no yeah the Internet is is filled with
00:03:38 yeah the Internet is is filled with

00:03:38 yeah the Internet is is filled with really millions of routers you have one
00:03:42 really millions of routers you have one

00:03:42 really millions of routers you have one in your home we have one in our
00:03:44 in your home we have one in our

00:03:44 in your home we have one in our businesses and those state actors have
00:03:46 businesses and those state actors have

00:03:46 businesses and those state actors have them there but because there are
00:03:49 them there but because there are

00:03:49 them there but because there are millions of routers there's still a path
00:03:51 millions of routers there's still a path

00:03:51 millions of routers there's still a path between any two locations on the
00:03:54 between any two locations on the

00:03:54 between any two locations on the internet which is typically less than 40
00:03:57 internet which is typically less than 40

00:03:57 internet which is typically less than 40 hops so anytime you have less than 40
00:04:02 hops so anytime you have less than 40

00:04:02 hops so anytime you have less than 40 hops you are not communicating to the
00:04:05 hops you are not communicating to the

00:04:05 hops you are not communicating to the entire world if you have like default
00:04:09 entire world if you have like default

00:04:09 entire world if you have like default settings for Microsoft is a hundred and
00:04:12 settings for Microsoft is a hundred and

00:04:12 settings for Microsoft is a hundred and twenty-eight hops or Oracle databases
00:04:15 twenty-eight hops or Oracle databases

00:04:15 twenty-eight hops or Oracle databases which are at 255 hops Linux is down at
00:04:19 which are at 255 hops Linux is down at

00:04:19 which are at 255 hops Linux is down at 64 hops so any of those devices in their
00:04:23 64 hops so any of those devices in their

00:04:23 64 hops so any of those devices in their default configuration out of the box
00:04:26 default configuration out of the box

00:04:26 default configuration out of the box they can communicate around the world
00:04:28 they can communicate around the world

00:04:29 they can communicate around the world yeah they can 64 hops away as well will
00:04:32 yeah they can 64 hops away as well will

00:04:32 yeah they can 64 hops away as well will get you anywhere with quite a bit of
00:04:33 get you anywhere with quite a bit of

00:04:33 get you anywhere with quite a bit of margin of error this hop setting in for
00:04:37 margin of error this hop setting in for

00:04:37 margin of error this hop setting in for for those listening it we're trying to
00:04:39 for those listening it we're trying to

00:04:39 for those listening it we're trying to learn a little more about this so you've
00:04:40 learn a little more about this so you've

00:04:40 learn a little more about this so you've probably heard of tcp/ip before and the
00:04:44 probably heard of tcp/ip before and the

00:04:44 probably heard of tcp/ip before and the IP that / IP the second part of that is
00:04:47 IP that / IP the second part of that is

00:04:47 IP that / IP the second part of that is actually the the base protocol that's
00:04:49 actually the the base protocol that's

00:04:49 actually the the base protocol that's the what's called the Internet Protocol
00:04:50 the what's called the Internet Protocol

00:04:51 the what's called the Internet Protocol inside of that IP packet
00:04:53 inside of that IP packet

00:04:53 inside of that IP packet there's a header and in that header
00:04:55 there's a header and in that header

00:04:55 there's a header and in that header there's that field for the hop count so
00:04:58 there's that field for the hop count so

00:04:58 there's that field for the hop count so what this prevents is if you end up with
00:05:00 what this prevents is if you end up with

00:05:00 what this prevents is if you end up with a loop on the Internet to where some
00:05:02 a loop on the Internet to where some

00:05:02 a loop on the Internet to where some device was routing improperly and it was
00:05:06 device was routing improperly and it was

00:05:06 device was routing improperly and it was bouncing back and forth this keeps those
00:05:08 bouncing back and forth this keeps those

00:05:08 bouncing back and forth this keeps those packets that were trying to travel to
00:05:10 packets that were trying to travel to

00:05:10 packets that were trying to travel to that destination that gets stuck in the
00:05:12 that destination that gets stuck in the

00:05:12 that destination that gets stuck in the loop from bouncing around forever so
00:05:14 loop from bouncing around forever so

00:05:14 loop from bouncing around forever so that the hops will eventually expire of
00:05:17 that the hops will eventually expire of

00:05:17 that the hops will eventually expire of 64 128 256 posed to an attack surface
00:05:44 64 128 256 posed to an attack surface

00:05:44 64 128 256 posed to an attack surface that is the entire world the entire
00:05:47 that is the entire world the entire

00:05:47 that is the entire world the entire internet we reduce the attack surface of
00:05:50 internet we reduce the attack surface of

00:05:50 internet we reduce the attack surface of these devices so that they can't be
00:05:53 these devices so that they can't be

00:05:53 these devices so that they can't be communicated to nor can they communicate
00:05:56 communicated to nor can they communicate

00:05:56 communicated to nor can they communicate from yeah so as an example with that
00:05:59 from yeah so as an example with that

00:05:59 from yeah so as an example with that Oracle database so say if we were only
00:06:03 Oracle database so say if we were only

00:06:03 Oracle database so say if we were only supposed to be communicating with that
00:06:05 supposed to be communicating with that

00:06:05 supposed to be communicating with that database via computers connected to its
00:06:09 database via computers connected to its

00:06:09 database via computers connected to its local segment on a VPN or other hosts
00:06:13 local segment on a VPN or other hosts

00:06:13 local segment on a VPN or other hosts across maybe a secured zone but no more
00:06:17 across maybe a secured zone but no more

00:06:17 across maybe a secured zone but no more than one other network away you could
00:06:19 than one other network away you could

00:06:19 than one other network away you could lower that hop count down from 255 to 4
00:06:25 lower that hop count down from 255 to 4

00:06:25 lower that hop count down from 255 to 4 or 3 and it would stop those database
00:06:29 or 3 and it would stop those database

00:06:29 or 3 and it would stop those database packets from getting out onto the
00:06:30 packets from getting out onto the

00:06:30 packets from getting out onto the Internet they would just expire and the
00:06:32 Internet they would just expire and the

00:06:32 Internet they would just expire and the router would drop them precisely that is
00:06:35 router would drop them precisely that is

00:06:35 router would drop them precisely that is the most powerful capability is changing
00:06:38 the most powerful capability is changing

00:06:38 the most powerful capability is changing that 255 hop count on an Oracle database
00:06:43 that 255 hop count on an Oracle database

00:06:43 that 255 hop count on an Oracle database that contains sock data PCI data PII
00:06:49 that contains sock data PCI data PII

00:06:49 that contains sock data PCI data PII information health information you
00:06:52 information health information you

00:06:52 information health information you change that from its default setting
00:06:55 change that from its default setting

00:06:55 change that from its default setting down to like you said for if there's 4
00:06:58 down to like you said for if there's 4

00:06:58 down to like you said for if there's 4 routers in the data center and we have a
00:07:02 routers in the data center and we have a

00:07:02 routers in the data center and we have a hop count of 4 it decrements through
00:07:05 hop count of 4 it decrements through

00:07:05 hop count of 4 it decrements through each router and
00:07:07 each router and

00:07:07 each router and decrements to 0 when the hop reaches 0
00:07:10 decrements to 0 when the hop reaches 0

00:07:10 decrements to 0 when the hop reaches 0 that's why we named our company hop 0 is
00:07:13 that's why we named our company hop 0 is

00:07:13 that's why we named our company hop 0 is because when the hop reaches 0 the
00:07:16 because when the hop reaches 0 the

00:07:16 because when the hop reaches 0 the packet is destroyed by every router ever
00:07:20 packet is destroyed by every router ever

00:07:20 packet is destroyed by every router ever made it is part of IP and what makes it
00:07:24 made it is part of IP and what makes it

00:07:24 made it is part of IP and what makes it work so we don't have to put any
00:07:26 work so we don't have to put any

00:07:26 work so we don't have to put any software on any routers or anything in
00:07:28 software on any routers or anything in

00:07:28 software on any routers or anything in fact that Oracle database we don't have
00:07:32 fact that Oracle database we don't have

00:07:32 fact that Oracle database we don't have to put any software on that Oracle
00:07:34 to put any software on that Oracle

00:07:34 to put any software on that Oracle database either all we do is change that
00:07:37 database either all we do is change that

00:07:37 database either all we do is change that value in the operating system so that it
00:07:41 value in the operating system so that it

00:07:41 value in the operating system so that it will only communicate for routers deep
00:07:45 will only communicate for routers deep

00:07:45 will only communicate for routers deep yeah and and so I've got some real
00:07:49 yeah and and so I've got some real

00:07:49 yeah and and so I've got some real security geeks and insists admins out
00:07:52 security geeks and insists admins out

00:07:52 security geeks and insists admins out there in the audience they go well why
00:07:53 there in the audience they go well why

00:07:53 there in the audience they go well why don't I just go change this on my
00:07:54 don't I just go change this on my

00:07:54 don't I just go change this on my database server by myself like it sounds
00:07:56 database server by myself like it sounds

00:07:56 database server by myself like it sounds like I should just do this right now
00:07:58 like I should just do this right now

00:07:58 like I should just do this right now great idea but it's not that hard is it
00:08:02 great idea but it's not that hard is it

00:08:02 great idea but it's not that hard is it actually you can do it and I encourage
00:08:05 actually you can do it and I encourage

00:08:05 actually you can do it and I encourage you to do it and as a matter of fact as
00:08:07 you to do it and as a matter of fact as

00:08:07 you to do it and as a matter of fact as soon as you've got about 10 or 15 set
00:08:10 soon as you've got about 10 or 15 set

00:08:10 soon as you've got about 10 or 15 set like that and there's one little bump
00:08:12 like that and there's one little bump

00:08:12 like that and there's one little bump because something does go awry somewhere
00:08:15 because something does go awry somewhere

00:08:15 because something does go awry somewhere and the hops increase for a little bit
00:08:17 and the hops increase for a little bit

00:08:17 and the hops increase for a little bit our system will find that and adjust for
00:08:22 our system will find that and adjust for

00:08:22 our system will find that and adjust for those and we will monitor for anything
00:08:26 those and we will monitor for anything

00:08:26 those and we will monitor for anything trying to escape beyond it so we really
00:08:29 trying to escape beyond it so we really

00:08:29 trying to escape beyond it so we really want people to go set the hop count
00:08:32 want people to go set the hop count

00:08:32 want people to go set the hop count because after you do it on 10 or 15
00:08:35 because after you do it on 10 or 15

00:08:35 because after you do it on 10 or 15 stations you'll be calling us up and
00:08:37 stations you'll be calling us up and

00:08:37 stations you'll be calling us up and asking us for that additional software
00:08:40 asking us for that additional software

00:08:40 asking us for that additional software that does all the kind of like how I
00:08:41 that does all the kind of like how I

00:08:41 that does all the kind of like how I oughta made it exactly yeah so as you
00:08:47 oughta made it exactly yeah so as you

00:08:47 oughta made it exactly yeah so as you were digging through working on this
00:08:48 were digging through working on this

00:08:48 were digging through working on this idea and you realized like no one has
00:08:53 idea and you realized like no one has

00:08:53 idea and you realized like no one has done this before what was that kind of
00:08:55 done this before what was that kind of

00:08:55 done this before what was that kind of epiphany moment of like this is a real
00:08:57 epiphany moment of like this is a real

00:08:57 epiphany moment of like this is a real kind of clean easy way to increase
00:09:01 kind of clean easy way to increase

00:09:01 kind of clean easy way to increase security to make the attack surface
00:09:04 security to make the attack surface

00:09:04 security to make the attack surface smaller to add attackers another hurdle
00:09:07 smaller to add attackers another hurdle

00:09:07 smaller to add attackers another hurdle they have to overcome and you're
00:09:09 they have to overcome and you're

00:09:09 they have to overcome and you're thinking and what was that that epiphany
00:09:11 thinking and what was that that epiphany

00:09:11 thinking and what was that that epiphany moment when it came through and what was
00:09:13 moment when it came through and what was

00:09:13 moment when it came through and what was going through your head well at that
00:09:15 going through your head well at that

00:09:15 going through your head well at that time that I decided that I was going to
00:09:19 time that I decided that I was going to

00:09:19 time that I decided that I was going to write the
00:09:20 write the

00:09:20 write the patent I had already known for many
00:09:24 patent I had already known for many

00:09:24 patent I had already known for many years how I pee hop count worked I've
00:09:28 years how I pee hop count worked I've

00:09:28 years how I pee hop count worked I've trained 50,000 technologists in 27
00:09:32 trained 50,000 technologists in 27

00:09:32 trained 50,000 technologists in 27 countries on network forensics so I had
00:09:37 countries on network forensics so I had

00:09:37 countries on network forensics so I had presented the what a hop count is and
00:09:41 presented the what a hop count is and

00:09:41 presented the what a hop count is and how those fields are and teaching people
00:09:44 how those fields are and teaching people

00:09:44 how those fields are and teaching people how to use Wireshark to look at that
00:09:47 how to use Wireshark to look at that

00:09:47 how to use Wireshark to look at that metric and that sort of thing for many
00:09:49 metric and that sort of thing for many

00:09:49 metric and that sort of thing for many many years however it wasn't until
00:09:53 many years however it wasn't until

00:09:53 many years however it wasn't until security became such a huge problem that
00:09:57 security became such a huge problem that

00:09:57 security became such a huge problem that you no longer wanted your hop count to
00:10:01 you no longer wanted your hop count to

00:10:01 you no longer wanted your hop count to be enough to go around the world now you
00:10:03 be enough to go around the world now you

00:10:03 be enough to go around the world now you were looking at saying hey man we we
00:10:07 were looking at saying hey man we we

00:10:07 were looking at saying hey man we we don't want to communicate to North Korea
00:10:10 don't want to communicate to North Korea

00:10:10 don't want to communicate to North Korea and to other places on the on the globe
00:10:12 and to other places on the on the globe

00:10:12 and to other places on the on the globe we want to restrict how far we
00:10:14 we want to restrict how far we

00:10:14 we want to restrict how far we communicate and that's when it really
00:10:17 communicate and that's when it really

00:10:17 communicate and that's when it really dawned on me that the firewall with all
00:10:21 dawned on me that the firewall with all

00:10:21 dawned on me that the firewall with all of its capabilities isn't able to limit
00:10:24 of its capabilities isn't able to limit

00:10:24 of its capabilities isn't able to limit the distance so whereas the firewalls
00:10:27 the distance so whereas the firewalls

00:10:27 the distance so whereas the firewalls take care of keeping things in or
00:10:30 take care of keeping things in or

00:10:30 take care of keeping things in or keeping things out
00:10:31 keeping things out

00:10:31 keeping things out hops zeros solution limits how far data
00:10:35 hops zeros solution limits how far data

00:10:35 hops zeros solution limits how far data can travel yeah and so speaking of
00:10:38 can travel yeah and so speaking of

00:10:38 can travel yeah and so speaking of firewalls so why wouldn't I just if I
00:10:40 firewalls so why wouldn't I just if I

00:10:40 firewalls so why wouldn't I just if I didn't want to talk to China it doesn't
00:10:42 didn't want to talk to China it doesn't

00:10:42 didn't want to talk to China it doesn't China some set of IP addresses wouldn't
00:10:44 China some set of IP addresses wouldn't

00:10:44 China some set of IP addresses wouldn't I just go block all of those that is
00:10:46 I just go block all of those that is

00:10:46 I just go block all of those that is correct you can use geo IP in the
00:10:51 correct you can use geo IP in the

00:10:51 correct you can use geo IP in the firewall and say anything that's in
00:10:54 firewall and say anything that's in

00:10:54 firewall and say anything that's in China by virtue of its IP ranges that
00:10:58 China by virtue of its IP ranges that

00:10:58 China by virtue of its IP ranges that Diana gave to them etc you you can
00:11:02 Diana gave to them etc you you can

00:11:02 Diana gave to them etc you you can restrict where your packets go now the
00:11:05 restrict where your packets go now the

00:11:05 restrict where your packets go now the trouble is is that sometimes there are
00:11:08 trouble is is that sometimes there are

00:11:08 trouble is is that sometimes there are applications that need to go to China
00:11:11 applications that need to go to China

00:11:11 applications that need to go to China and certain providers web providers and
00:11:17 and certain providers web providers and

00:11:17 and certain providers web providers and and and the like have things that are in
00:11:20 and and the like have things that are in

00:11:20 and and the like have things that are in China and you do need to communicate so
00:11:23 China and you do need to communicate so

00:11:23 China and you do need to communicate so when you hit that bit and say absolutely
00:11:26 when you hit that bit and say absolutely

00:11:26 when you hit that bit and say absolutely nothing from China you now may have
00:11:29 nothing from China you now may have

00:11:29 nothing from China you now may have stopped a service like GoToMeeting may
00:11:33 stopped a service like GoToMeeting may

00:11:33 stopped a service like GoToMeeting may not work anymore
00:11:34 not work anymore

00:11:34 not work anymore or some other application so although
00:11:37 or some other application so although

00:11:37 or some other application so although that does work and it is a good solution
00:11:40 that does work and it is a good solution

00:11:40 that does work and it is a good solution it doesn't work in every single case and
00:11:43 it doesn't work in every single case and

00:11:43 it doesn't work in every single case and when we set hop count we set it on an
00:11:46 when we set hop count we set it on an

00:11:46 when we set hop count we set it on an individual device basis not on a global
00:11:50 individual device basis not on a global

00:11:50 individual device basis not on a global basis yeah and we can even set it by
00:11:53 basis yeah and we can even set it by

00:11:53 basis yeah and we can even set it by port so a cool thing about setting it by
00:11:57 port so a cool thing about setting it by

00:11:57 port so a cool thing about setting it by port is that let's say you have a web
00:11:59 port is that let's say you have a web

00:11:59 port is that let's say you have a web server the web server you want to reach
00:12:02 server the web server you want to reach

00:12:02 server the web server you want to reach the entire globe however you don't want
00:12:05 the entire globe however you don't want

00:12:05 the entire globe however you don't want port 22 which is the SSH port which you
00:12:10 port 22 which is the SSH port which you

00:12:10 port 22 which is the SSH port which you can get access to the root functions of
00:12:12 can get access to the root functions of

00:12:12 can get access to the root functions of the box and control it you don't want
00:12:15 the box and control it you don't want

00:12:15 the box and control it you don't want that port 22 going around the globe No
00:12:18 that port 22 going around the globe No

00:12:18 that port 22 going around the globe No so you're gonna restrict port 22 and
00:12:21 so you're gonna restrict port 22 and

00:12:21 so you're gonna restrict port 22 and allow port 80 in port 443 to be able to
00:12:26 allow port 80 in port 443 to be able to

00:12:26 allow port 80 in port 443 to be able to go around the globe yeah that is you you
00:12:29 go around the globe yeah that is you you

00:12:29 go around the globe yeah that is you you get out for those that have not been in
00:12:31 get out for those that have not been in

00:12:31 get out for those that have not been in hands on managing firewall policies as
00:12:33 hands on managing firewall policies as

00:12:33 hands on managing firewall policies as soon as you start trying to have IP
00:12:35 soon as you start trying to have IP

00:12:35 soon as you start trying to have IP exclusion ranges by port and protocol
00:12:38 exclusion ranges by port and protocol

00:12:38 exclusion ranges by port and protocol and individual server and system you end
00:12:40 and individual server and system you end

00:12:40 and individual server and system you end up with a firewall rule set that is
00:12:42 up with a firewall rule set that is

00:12:42 up with a firewall rule set that is unwieldy and unmanageable so as is you
00:12:44 unwieldy and unmanageable so as is you

00:12:44 unwieldy and unmanageable so as is you you start thinking through some of these
00:12:46 you start thinking through some of these

00:12:46 you start thinking through some of these simple scenarios in your head you're
00:12:47 simple scenarios in your head you're

00:12:47 simple scenarios in your head you're going well I could just do this I could
00:12:49 going well I could just do this I could

00:12:49 going well I could just do this I could just do that there's a reason that those
00:12:52 just do that there's a reason that those

00:12:52 just do that there's a reason that those things don't necessarily work so if
00:12:55 things don't necessarily work so if

00:12:55 things don't necessarily work so if you're listening to us live in the radio
00:12:57 you're listening to us live in the radio

00:12:57 you're listening to us live in the radio you are on 1200 w ai this is cyber talk
00:13:01 you are on 1200 w ai this is cyber talk

00:13:01 you are on 1200 w ai this is cyber talk radio and we're talking cyber security
00:13:03 radio and we're talking cyber security

00:13:03 radio and we're talking cyber security if you are listening to us on I heart
00:13:06 if you are listening to us on I heart

00:13:06 if you are listening to us on I heart streaming thank you for joining us there
00:13:07 streaming thank you for joining us there

00:13:07 streaming thank you for joining us there and if you happen to be on your iPhone
00:13:10 and if you happen to be on your iPhone

00:13:10 and if you happen to be on your iPhone or Android device streaming our podcast
00:13:12 or Android device streaming our podcast

00:13:12 or Android device streaming our podcast thank you for joining in to listen and
00:13:15 thank you for joining in to listen and

00:13:15 thank you for joining in to listen and be part of our audience there you can
00:13:17 be part of our audience there you can

00:13:17 be part of our audience there you can also follow us on twitter at cyber talk
00:13:19 also follow us on twitter at cyber talk

00:13:19 also follow us on twitter at cyber talk radio you can find us on Facebook or on
00:13:22 radio you can find us on Facebook or on

00:13:22 radio you can find us on Facebook or on our web site at WWF or a do comm we've
00:13:26 our web site at WWF or a do comm we've

00:13:26 our web site at WWF or a do comm we've been talking about network hop count and
00:13:28 been talking about network hop count and

00:13:28 been talking about network hop count and a the patent and some of the work that
00:13:29 a the patent and some of the work that

00:13:29 a the patent and some of the work that bill is doing with his company hop zero
00:13:32 bill is doing with his company hop zero

00:13:32 bill is doing with his company hop zero so you've made the drive into San
00:13:35 so you've made the drive into San

00:13:35 so you've made the drive into San Antonio this morning down i-35 coming
00:13:38 Antonio this morning down i-35 coming

00:13:38 Antonio this morning down i-35 coming this way so you guys are headquartered
00:13:39 this way so you guys are headquartered

00:13:39 this way so you guys are headquartered up in Austin Texas that's right we are
00:13:42 up in Austin Texas that's right we are

00:13:42 up in Austin Texas that's right we are headquartered in Austin Texas and we
00:13:44 headquartered in Austin Texas and we

00:13:44 headquartered in Austin Texas and we actually office out of the
00:13:47 actually office out of the

00:13:47 actually office out of the Concordia University incubator there
00:13:50 Concordia University incubator there

00:13:50 Concordia University incubator there it's called CTX incubator so you've been
00:13:52 it's called CTX incubator so you've been

00:13:52 it's called CTX incubator so you've been all over the world as you'd said earlier
00:13:54 all over the world as you'd said earlier

00:13:54 all over the world as you'd said earlier training folks on these things how did
00:13:55 training folks on these things how did

00:13:55 training folks on these things how did you end up in Austin Texas in 2005 net
00:14:01 you end up in Austin Texas in 2005 net

00:14:01 you end up in Austin Texas in 2005 net QoS a performance company that was later
00:14:05 QoS a performance company that was later

00:14:05 QoS a performance company that was later bought by Computer Associates or CA
00:14:08 bought by Computer Associates or CA

00:14:08 bought by Computer Associates or CA Technologies bought my company that I
00:14:12 Technologies bought my company that I

00:14:12 Technologies bought my company that I had run for 16 years training tens of
00:14:15 had run for 16 years training tens of

00:14:15 had run for 16 years training tens of thousands of people and certifying 3,000
00:14:19 thousands of people and certifying 3,000

00:14:19 thousands of people and certifying 3,000 certified net analysts and when they
00:14:22 certified net analysts and when they

00:14:22 certified net analysts and when they bought the company that kind of meant
00:14:24 bought the company that kind of meant

00:14:24 bought the company that kind of meant that I was going to have to move out of
00:14:26 that I was going to have to move out of

00:14:26 that I was going to have to move out of my home state of California where my
00:14:29 my home state of California where my

00:14:29 my home state of California where my family has been since the mid 1800s just
00:14:32 family has been since the mid 1800s just

00:14:32 family has been since the mid 1800s just south of Monterey on the Monterey coast
00:14:34 south of Monterey on the Monterey coast

00:14:34 south of Monterey on the Monterey coast to Texas and I thought okay I can do
00:14:38 to Texas and I thought okay I can do

00:14:38 to Texas and I thought okay I can do this for a little while well it turned
00:14:41 this for a little while well it turned

00:14:41 this for a little while well it turned out to be a fabulous place and then
00:14:44 out to be a fabulous place and then

00:14:44 out to be a fabulous place and then later on after I moved here the company
00:14:46 later on after I moved here the company

00:14:46 later on after I moved here the company got sold to CA and that kind of freed me
00:14:51 got sold to CA and that kind of freed me

00:14:51 got sold to CA and that kind of freed me up to go wherever I wanted I ended up
00:14:52 up to go wherever I wanted I ended up

00:14:52 up to go wherever I wanted I ended up moving back to California and just six
00:14:55 moving back to California and just six

00:14:55 moving back to California and just six months ago because all the development
00:14:57 months ago because all the development

00:14:57 months ago because all the development people that I know so well the experts
00:15:00 people that I know so well the experts

00:15:00 people that I know so well the experts in processing this type of data we're
00:15:04 in processing this type of data we're

00:15:04 in processing this type of data we're here in Austin and so I moved back
00:15:06 here in Austin and so I moved back

00:15:06 here in Austin and so I moved back purposefully to take advantage of the
00:15:08 purposefully to take advantage of the

00:15:08 purposefully to take advantage of the great people who were in the Austin area
00:15:10 great people who were in the Austin area

00:15:10 great people who were in the Austin area to help me build this company yeah so as
00:15:14 to help me build this company yeah so as

00:15:14 to help me build this company yeah so as you guys go through on the the startup
00:15:17 you guys go through on the the startup

00:15:17 you guys go through on the the startup path here so many of the folks out there
00:15:20 path here so many of the folks out there

00:15:20 path here so many of the folks out there I think are cyber security practitioners
00:15:22 I think are cyber security practitioners

00:15:22 I think are cyber security practitioners listening to this so starting your own
00:15:24 listening to this so starting your own

00:15:24 listening to this so starting your own cybersecurity product company so you had
00:15:26 cybersecurity product company so you had

00:15:26 cybersecurity product company so you had this patent this idea you knew some
00:15:29 this patent this idea you knew some

00:15:29 this patent this idea you knew some people that can do development and kind
00:15:31 people that can do development and kind

00:15:31 people that can do development and kind of help you build a team but how do you
00:15:32 of help you build a team but how do you

00:15:32 of help you build a team but how do you go from patent an idea to an actual
00:15:35 go from patent an idea to an actual

00:15:35 go from patent an idea to an actual business that's up and running very
00:15:37 business that's up and running very

00:15:37 business that's up and running very painfully even if you have an idea that
00:15:41 painfully even if you have an idea that

00:15:41 painfully even if you have an idea that sounds terrific and is terrific it still
00:15:45 sounds terrific and is terrific it still

00:15:45 sounds terrific and is terrific it still has to be brought into some reality you
00:15:49 has to be brought into some reality you

00:15:49 has to be brought into some reality you start by socializing it to some degree
00:15:52 start by socializing it to some degree

00:15:52 start by socializing it to some degree and of course you don't want to
00:15:54 and of course you don't want to

00:15:54 and of course you don't want to socialize things until you have your
00:15:57 socialize things until you have your

00:15:57 socialize things until you have your information patented
00:16:00 information patented

00:16:00 information patented so I waited until I had it patented and
00:16:03 so I waited until I had it patented and

00:16:03 so I waited until I had it patented and then I started talking about it blogging
00:16:06 then I started talking about it blogging

00:16:06 then I started talking about it blogging about it discussing it and socializing
00:16:10 about it discussing it and socializing

00:16:10 about it discussing it and socializing it with other technologists yeah and and
00:16:14 it with other technologists yeah and and

00:16:14 it with other technologists yeah and and so now you guys have been up and running
00:16:17 so now you guys have been up and running

00:16:17 so now you guys have been up and running for a couple of years now actually I
00:16:21 for a couple of years now actually I

00:16:21 for a couple of years now actually I have been up and running for a couple of
00:16:23 have been up and running for a couple of

00:16:23 have been up and running for a couple of years as the founder however I worked on
00:16:26 years as the founder however I worked on

00:16:26 years as the founder however I worked on the patents and started socializing it
00:16:29 the patents and started socializing it

00:16:29 the patents and started socializing it working with investors and people that
00:16:32 working with investors and people that

00:16:32 working with investors and people that could help me do it and actually in
00:16:35 could help me do it and actually in

00:16:35 could help me do it and actually in February of 2018 February 1st our team
00:16:39 February of 2018 February 1st our team

00:16:39 February of 2018 February 1st our team started there's four of us and that's
00:16:42 started there's four of us and that's

00:16:42 started there's four of us and that's actually our true start date per se of
00:16:46 actually our true start date per se of

00:16:46 actually our true start date per se of when we started really writing serious
00:16:48 when we started really writing serious

00:16:48 when we started really writing serious code other than prototypes yeah so as
00:16:51 code other than prototypes yeah so as

00:16:51 code other than prototypes yeah so as you get out in front of early adopter
00:16:54 you get out in front of early adopter

00:16:54 you get out in front of early adopter customers and you start talking to folks
00:16:57 customers and you start talking to folks

00:16:57 customers and you start talking to folks about this what are the reactions you're
00:16:58 about this what are the reactions you're

00:16:58 about this what are the reactions you're getting from some of the networking or
00:17:00 getting from some of the networking or

00:17:00 getting from some of the networking or security teams it's it's pretty
00:17:04 security teams it's it's pretty

00:17:04 security teams it's it's pretty eye-opening when I explain what we're
00:17:06 eye-opening when I explain what we're

00:17:06 eye-opening when I explain what we're trying to accomplish whether it's the
00:17:10 trying to accomplish whether it's the

00:17:10 trying to accomplish whether it's the Cisco development team security team or
00:17:13 Cisco development team security team or

00:17:13 Cisco development team security team or junipers team or semantics team they
00:17:15 junipers team or semantics team they

00:17:15 junipers team or semantics team they come around and they start looking at it
00:17:18 come around and they start looking at it

00:17:18 come around and they start looking at it and they say so what is this and I
00:17:21 and they say so what is this and I

00:17:21 and they say so what is this and I explained how we're limiting how far
00:17:24 explained how we're limiting how far

00:17:24 explained how we're limiting how far data can travel by starving time to live
00:17:26 data can travel by starving time to live

00:17:26 data can travel by starving time to live and they look at themselves one another
00:17:29 and they look at themselves one another

00:17:29 and they look at themselves one another they look at me kind of with some
00:17:32 they look at me kind of with some

00:17:32 they look at me kind of with some curiosity and say why didn't someone
00:17:36 curiosity and say why didn't someone

00:17:36 curiosity and say why didn't someone else already do this yeah to wit I say I
00:17:40 else already do this yeah to wit I say I

00:17:40 else already do this yeah to wit I say I don't know but we're doing it now and
00:17:44 don't know but we're doing it now and

00:17:44 don't know but we're doing it now and it's very powerful and it's going to
00:17:47 it's very powerful and it's going to

00:17:47 it's very powerful and it's going to make a dent it's not going to change
00:17:49 make a dent it's not going to change

00:17:49 make a dent it's not going to change every everything but it's going to make
00:17:51 every everything but it's going to make

00:17:51 every everything but it's going to make a very serious dent our our objective is
00:17:56 a very serious dent our our objective is

00:17:56 a very serious dent our our objective is to stop the wholesale rating of
00:17:58 to stop the wholesale rating of

00:17:58 to stop the wholesale rating of America's data and the world's data so
00:18:02 America's data and the world's data so

00:18:02 America's data and the world's data so that everyone can keep their sovereign
00:18:05 that everyone can keep their sovereign

00:18:05 that everyone can keep their sovereign data there's yeah and and it's
00:18:09 data there's yeah and and it's

00:18:09 data there's yeah and and it's interesting as so I'd use the we talked
00:18:11 interesting as so I'd use the we talked

00:18:11 interesting as so I'd use the we talked a little bit about the how the Hopf
00:18:14 a little bit about the how the Hopf

00:18:14 a little bit about the how the Hopf stuff
00:18:14 stuff

00:18:14 stuff and if you think I'm an algae if you're
00:18:17 and if you think I'm an algae if you're

00:18:17 and if you think I'm an algae if you're out there listening still and not quite
00:18:19 out there listening still and not quite

00:18:19 out there listening still and not quite all the way up to speed so from air
00:18:22 all the way up to speed so from air

00:18:22 all the way up to speed so from air travel like you you think about I've got
00:18:24 travel like you you think about I've got

00:18:24 travel like you you think about I've got to go to one Airport and I've got to go
00:18:26 to go to one Airport and I've got to go

00:18:26 to go to one Airport and I've got to go to another Airport I've got to go to
00:18:27 to another Airport I've got to go to

00:18:27 to another Airport I've got to go to another Airport if you want to do stop
00:18:30 another Airport if you want to do stop

00:18:30 another Airport if you want to do stop people from flying from San Antonio
00:18:32 people from flying from San Antonio

00:18:32 people from flying from San Antonio Texas to the Middle East if they were
00:18:34 Texas to the Middle East if they were

00:18:34 Texas to the Middle East if they were only allowed to take direct flights
00:18:35 only allowed to take direct flights

00:18:35 only allowed to take direct flights you're not gonna be able to get there
00:18:37 you're not gonna be able to get there

00:18:37 you're not gonna be able to get there you can't fly on an airplane directly
00:18:40 you can't fly on an airplane directly

00:18:40 you can't fly on an airplane directly from San Antonio to Dubai
00:18:42 from San Antonio to Dubai

00:18:42 from San Antonio to Dubai you've got to hop and stop somewhere in
00:18:44 you've got to hop and stop somewhere in

00:18:44 you've got to hop and stop somewhere in between exactly and just another
00:18:48 between exactly and just another

00:18:48 between exactly and just another internet application that was one of the
00:18:50 internet application that was one of the

00:18:50 internet application that was one of the very first was BGP routers BGP routers
00:18:54 very first was BGP routers BGP routers

00:18:54 very first was BGP routers BGP routers have a hop of one when they broadcast
00:18:58 have a hop of one when they broadcast

00:18:58 have a hop of one when they broadcast their routes and that's purposeful so
00:19:01 their routes and that's purposeful so

00:19:01 their routes and that's purposeful so that they cannot peer with other than a
00:19:04 that they cannot peer with other than a

00:19:04 that they cannot peer with other than a direct adjacency they don't want to
00:19:07 direct adjacency they don't want to

00:19:07 direct adjacency they don't want to appear with some router that's across
00:19:10 appear with some router that's across

00:19:10 appear with some router that's across the world or across multiple other
00:19:13 the world or across multiple other

00:19:13 the world or across multiple other routers so they limit the hop count to
00:19:17 routers so they limit the hop count to

00:19:17 routers so they limit the hop count to one and that's one of the major
00:19:18 one and that's one of the major

00:19:18 one and that's one of the major applications of hop starvation is the
00:19:21 applications of hop starvation is the

00:19:21 applications of hop starvation is the bgp router only allowing one hop so they
00:19:26 bgp router only allowing one hop so they

00:19:26 bgp router only allowing one hop so they won't peer with other than adjacent
00:19:28 won't peer with other than adjacent

00:19:28 won't peer with other than adjacent peers yeah and and for for those that
00:19:33 peers yeah and and for for those that

00:19:33 peers yeah and and for for those that BGP is the way that all the different
00:19:36 BGP is the way that all the different

00:19:36 BGP is the way that all the different people out there on the Internet talk to
00:19:38 people out there on the Internet talk to

00:19:38 people out there on the Internet talk to each other so if I was AT&T isn't a
00:19:41 each other so if I was AT&T isn't a

00:19:41 each other so if I was AT&T isn't a service provider and maybe I was verizon
00:19:46 service provider and maybe I was verizon

00:19:46 service provider and maybe I was verizon they will appear with each other over
00:19:48 they will appear with each other over

00:19:48 they will appear with each other over BGP so it's it's kind of a low trust way
00:19:51 BGP so it's it's kind of a low trust way

00:19:51 BGP so it's it's kind of a low trust way to connect with each other you'd only
00:19:53 to connect with each other you'd only

00:19:53 to connect with each other you'd only have to advertise all the IP addresses
00:19:54 have to advertise all the IP addresses

00:19:54 have to advertise all the IP addresses that folks can reach through your
00:19:57 that folks can reach through your

00:19:57 that folks can reach through your network you don't have to share any
00:19:59 network you don't have to share any

00:19:59 network you don't have to share any topology or other details with somebody
00:20:01 topology or other details with somebody

00:20:01 topology or other details with somebody who might be a competitor it's
00:20:03 who might be a competitor it's

00:20:03 who might be a competitor it's interesting though BGP even with that
00:20:04 interesting though BGP even with that

00:20:04 interesting though BGP even with that hop count limiting is a frequent target
00:20:07 hop count limiting is a frequent target

00:20:07 hop count limiting is a frequent target of attacks there was one recently here
00:20:09 of attacks there was one recently here

00:20:09 of attacks there was one recently here the up in the Chicago area at a data
00:20:11 the up in the Chicago area at a data

00:20:11 the up in the Chicago area at a data center peering where Amazon's route 53
00:20:14 center peering where Amazon's route 53

00:20:14 center peering where Amazon's route 53 DNS service got hijacked for a couple of
00:20:16 DNS service got hijacked for a couple of

00:20:16 DNS service got hijacked for a couple of hours over a BGP
00:20:18 hours over a BGP

00:20:18 hours over a BGP attack so it's one of if you are curious
00:20:22 attack so it's one of if you are curious

00:20:22 attack so it's one of if you are curious to learn a little bit more about BGP
00:20:24 to learn a little bit more about BGP

00:20:24 to learn a little bit more about BGP there's a recent article there was a
00:20:25 there's a recent article there was a

00:20:25 there's a recent article there was a plenty written up about that attack
00:20:27 plenty written up about that attack

00:20:27 plenty written up about that attack on amazon's route 53 dns service that's
00:20:31 on amazon's route 53 dns service that's

00:20:31 on amazon's route 53 dns service that's a good one to get started and then you
00:20:33 a good one to get started and then you

00:20:33 a good one to get started and then you could go down a rabbit hole at bgp
00:20:35 could go down a rabbit hole at bgp

00:20:35 could go down a rabbit hole at bgp attacks for the rest of your life just
00:20:36 attacks for the rest of your life just

00:20:36 attacks for the rest of your life just like every other kind of protocol out
00:20:38 like every other kind of protocol out

00:20:38 like every other kind of protocol out there it's very interesting I did a
00:20:41 there it's very interesting I did a

00:20:41 there it's very interesting I did a study on my own internet connection and
00:20:45 study on my own internet connection and

00:20:45 study on my own internet connection and what I found was over the period of
00:20:48 what I found was over the period of

00:20:48 what I found was over the period of about eight hours I had two thousand one
00:20:51 about eight hours I had two thousand one

00:20:51 about eight hours I had two thousand one hundred and twenty six different
00:20:54 hundred and twenty six different

00:20:54 hundred and twenty six different organizations or IP addresses trying to
00:20:57 organizations or IP addresses trying to

00:20:57 organizations or IP addresses trying to attack my system now the firewall did
00:21:01 attack my system now the firewall did

00:21:01 attack my system now the firewall did block those attempts but how often are
00:21:05 block those attempts but how often are

00:21:05 block those attempts but how often are we tempted to just shut off the firewall
00:21:08 we tempted to just shut off the firewall

00:21:08 we tempted to just shut off the firewall for a couple of minutes to see if this
00:21:11 for a couple of minutes to see if this

00:21:11 for a couple of minutes to see if this other application will work well I'm
00:21:14 other application will work well I'm

00:21:14 other application will work well I'm here to tell you that if you do that
00:21:16 here to tell you that if you do that

00:21:16 here to tell you that if you do that there are thousands of devices around
00:21:20 there are thousands of devices around

00:21:20 there are thousands of devices around the world who are constantly even on a
00:21:23 the world who are constantly even on a

00:21:23 the world who are constantly even on a home connection to an ISP they are
00:21:27 home connection to an ISP they are

00:21:27 home connection to an ISP they are constantly looking for any little hole
00:21:30 constantly looking for any little hole

00:21:30 constantly looking for any little hole that might develop it's amazing that
00:21:33 that might develop it's amazing that

00:21:33 that might develop it's amazing that they have that much traffic that it just
00:21:36 they have that much traffic that it just

00:21:36 they have that much traffic that it just is a huge amount of traffic that of
00:21:39 is a huge amount of traffic that of

00:21:39 is a huge amount of traffic that of little attempts on every protocol to
00:21:42 little attempts on every protocol to

00:21:42 little attempts on every protocol to break into your home overnight and and
00:21:44 break into your home overnight and and

00:21:44 break into your home overnight and and as folks go well why don't why doesn't
00:21:47 as folks go well why don't why doesn't

00:21:47 as folks go well why don't why doesn't your internet provider just block all
00:21:49 your internet provider just block all

00:21:49 your internet provider just block all this stuff they they can't because they
00:21:51 this stuff they they can't because they

00:21:51 this stuff they they can't because they don't know whether bill went to that
00:21:53 don't know whether bill went to that

00:21:53 don't know whether bill went to that website or didn't go to that website
00:21:55 website or didn't go to that website

00:21:55 website or didn't go to that website they're delivering an IP packet that
00:21:58 they're delivering an IP packet that

00:21:58 they're delivering an IP packet that says I'm coming from this address I'm
00:22:00 says I'm coming from this address I'm

00:22:00 says I'm coming from this address I'm going to this address and there's a
00:22:02 going to this address and there's a

00:22:02 going to this address and there's a little bit more metadata and things on
00:22:04 little bit more metadata and things on

00:22:04 little bit more metadata and things on there but the Internet service provider
00:22:05 there but the Internet service provider

00:22:05 there but the Internet service provider doesn't know if Bill asked for that
00:22:07 doesn't know if Bill asked for that

00:22:07 doesn't know if Bill asked for that packet be delivered or not exactly so
00:22:10 packet be delivered or not exactly so

00:22:10 packet be delivered or not exactly so they have to allow pretty much
00:22:13 they have to allow pretty much

00:22:13 they have to allow pretty much everything to see what develops of it
00:22:16 everything to see what develops of it

00:22:16 everything to see what develops of it and then if there is a legitimate
00:22:18 and then if there is a legitimate

00:22:18 and then if there is a legitimate connection or even an illegitimate
00:22:21 connection or even an illegitimate

00:22:21 connection or even an illegitimate connection the internet does not check
00:22:23 connection the internet does not check

00:22:23 connection the internet does not check the security of any of the communicators
00:22:27 the security of any of the communicators

00:22:27 the security of any of the communicators on the Internet
00:22:28 on the Internet

00:22:28 on the Internet now in the the those internet
00:22:31 now in the the those internet

00:22:31 now in the the those internet connections are it's just a highway
00:22:34 connections are it's just a highway

00:22:34 connections are it's just a highway system connecting different things if
00:22:36 system connecting different things if

00:22:36 system connecting different things if you think about that Airport analogy
00:22:37 you think about that Airport analogy

00:22:37 you think about that Airport analogy again there's security checkpoints at
00:22:40 again there's security checkpoints at

00:22:40 again there's security checkpoints at the airport all of that every
00:22:41 the airport all of that every

00:22:41 the airport all of that every you fly in if you land another country
00:22:43 you fly in if you land another country

00:22:43 you fly in if you land another country you go through another security
00:22:44 you go through another security

00:22:44 you go through another security checkpoint the internet the airport
00:22:48 checkpoint the internet the airport

00:22:48 checkpoint the internet the airport analogy is useful for explaining the hop
00:22:49 analogy is useful for explaining the hop

00:22:49 analogy is useful for explaining the hop count piece but it's much more like a
00:22:51 count piece but it's much more like a

00:22:51 count piece but it's much more like a highway system like I can get in my car
00:22:53 highway system like I can get in my car

00:22:53 highway system like I can get in my car and I can drive from Texas all the way
00:22:55 and I can drive from Texas all the way

00:22:55 and I can drive from Texas all the way to New York and I don't wanna have to
00:22:58 to New York and I don't wanna have to

00:22:58 to New York and I don't wanna have to stop at a single security checkpoint
00:22:59 stop at a single security checkpoint

00:22:59 stop at a single security checkpoint anywhere along the way and the state of
00:23:01 anywhere along the way and the state of

00:23:01 anywhere along the way and the state of Texas is responsible for the roads here
00:23:04 Texas is responsible for the roads here

00:23:04 Texas is responsible for the roads here and as soon as I cross in Oklahoma
00:23:05 and as soon as I cross in Oklahoma

00:23:05 and as soon as I cross in Oklahoma they're responsible for the roads there
00:23:07 they're responsible for the roads there

00:23:07 they're responsible for the roads there so the internet is set up very much that
00:23:10 so the internet is set up very much that

00:23:10 so the internet is set up very much that way is you you go across on your
00:23:12 way is you you go across on your

00:23:12 way is you you go across on your computer built into any operating system
00:23:15 computer built into any operating system

00:23:15 computer built into any operating system there's a command called traceroute and
00:23:18 there's a command called traceroute and

00:23:18 there's a command called traceroute and you can open up a command prompt and you
00:23:20 you can open up a command prompt and you

00:23:20 you can open up a command prompt and you can use trace router there's even some
00:23:23 can use trace router there's even some

00:23:23 can use trace router there's even some websites that will do trace route stuff
00:23:25 websites that will do trace route stuff

00:23:25 websites that will do trace route stuff for you and you can see the different
00:23:28 for you and you can see the different

00:23:28 for you and you can see the different hops there and if you have the dns
00:23:30 hops there and if you have the dns

00:23:30 hops there and if you have the dns resolution turned on it'll also show you
00:23:33 resolution turned on it'll also show you

00:23:33 resolution turned on it'll also show you the names of all those routers along the
00:23:34 the names of all those routers along the

00:23:34 the names of all those routers along the hop path and you'll be able to see
00:23:36 hop path and you'll be able to see

00:23:36 hop path and you'll be able to see pretty quickly that you go from your ISP
00:23:38 pretty quickly that you go from your ISP

00:23:38 pretty quickly that you go from your ISP to some other ISP to somebody else to
00:23:41 to some other ISP to somebody else to

00:23:41 to some other ISP to somebody else to somebody else before you finally maybe
00:23:43 somebody else before you finally maybe

00:23:43 somebody else before you finally maybe get to the website if you're gonna go
00:23:44 get to the website if you're gonna go

00:23:44 get to the website if you're gonna go shopping at Amazon you might cross three
00:23:46 shopping at Amazon you might cross three

00:23:46 shopping at Amazon you might cross three or four different providers to go from
00:23:48 or four different providers to go from

00:23:48 or four different providers to go from your internet provider at your house to
00:23:51 your internet provider at your house to

00:23:51 your internet provider at your house to a backbone provider or two before you
00:23:52 a backbone provider or two before you

00:23:53 a backbone provider or two before you reach a website exactly I always talk
00:23:56 reach a website exactly I always talk

00:23:56 reach a website exactly I always talk about limiting how far your kids can
00:23:59 about limiting how far your kids can

00:23:59 about limiting how far your kids can drive in your car by reducing the amount
00:24:02 drive in your car by reducing the amount

00:24:02 drive in your car by reducing the amount of fuel or the toll value that you give
00:24:06 of fuel or the toll value that you give

00:24:06 of fuel or the toll value that you give them to go across bridges or row
00:24:08 them to go across bridges or row

00:24:08 them to go across bridges or row and when they when the hop equals zero
00:24:11 and when they when the hop equals zero

00:24:11 and when they when the hop equals zero or the toll equals zero you can't go any
00:24:14 or the toll equals zero you can't go any

00:24:14 or the toll equals zero you can't go any more so you're listening to cyber talk
00:24:17 more so you're listening to cyber talk

00:24:17 more so you're listening to cyber talk radio on 1200 W AI we're gonna go ahead
00:24:20 radio on 1200 W AI we're gonna go ahead

00:24:20 radio on 1200 W AI we're gonna go ahead and take a quick break here at the
00:24:21 and take a quick break here at the

00:24:21 and take a quick break here at the bottom of the hour for these traffic and
00:24:23 bottom of the hour for these traffic and

00:24:23 bottom of the hour for these traffic and weather update and we will be back with
00:24:25 weather update and we will be back with

00:24:25 weather update and we will be back with the CTO of hop zero to keep talking
00:24:28 the CTO of hop zero to keep talking

00:24:28 the CTO of hop zero to keep talking about how to keep data safe and
00:24:31 about how to keep data safe and

00:24:31 about how to keep data safe and protected from exfiltration on the
00:24:34 protected from exfiltration on the

00:24:34 protected from exfiltration on the Internet
00:24:35 Internet

00:24:35 Internet [Music]
00:24:42


00:24:42
[Music]
00:25:03


00:25:03
welcome back to cyber talk radio I'm
00:25:06 welcome back to cyber talk radio I'm

00:25:06 welcome back to cyber talk radio I'm your host Brett paya the 20-year
00:25:08 your host Brett paya the 20-year

00:25:08 your host Brett paya the 20-year internet security veteran joined this
00:25:10 internet security veteran joined this

00:25:10 internet security veteran joined this week by the founder of hop zero bill
00:25:13 week by the founder of hop zero bill

00:25:13 week by the founder of hop zero bill Alderson and we were talking about the
00:25:16 Alderson and we were talking about the

00:25:16 Alderson and we were talking about the novel approach to limiting how far your
00:25:20 novel approach to limiting how far your

00:25:20 novel approach to limiting how far your information can go across the internet
00:25:21 information can go across the internet

00:25:21 information can go across the internet that bill has uncovered and is using to
00:25:25 that bill has uncovered and is using to

00:25:25 that bill has uncovered and is using to help businesses out there now protect
00:25:28 help businesses out there now protect

00:25:28 help businesses out there now protect their data from making it further than
00:25:31 their data from making it further than

00:25:31 their data from making it further than it needs to on the highway that is the
00:25:33 it needs to on the highway that is the

00:25:33 it needs to on the highway that is the Internet thank you for coming down the
00:25:36 Internet thank you for coming down the

00:25:36 Internet thank you for coming down the highway today to join us from Austin
00:25:38 highway today to join us from Austin

00:25:38 highway today to join us from Austin Bill awesome to be here with you Bret
00:25:41 Bill awesome to be here with you Bret

00:25:41 Bill awesome to be here with you Bret it's really nice here and in San Antonia
00:25:45 it's really nice here and in San Antonia

00:25:45 it's really nice here and in San Antonia although I hope it's gonna break through
00:25:47 although I hope it's gonna break through

00:25:47 although I hope it's gonna break through and we might see the Sun today if you're
00:25:50 and we might see the Sun today if you're

00:25:50 and we might see the Sun today if you're just joining us after the bottom of the
00:25:51 just joining us after the bottom of the

00:25:51 just joining us after the bottom of the hour break we're talking about how to
00:25:55 hour break we're talking about how to

00:25:55 hour break we're talking about how to keep things safe and the kind of default
00:25:59 keep things safe and the kind of default

00:25:59 keep things safe and the kind of default operating system settings are one to
00:26:04 operating system settings are one to

00:26:04 operating system settings are one to over-communicate an overshare maybe
00:26:06 over-communicate an overshare maybe

00:26:06 over-communicate an overshare maybe further than you need to you can listen
00:26:08 further than you need to you can listen

00:26:08 further than you need to you can listen to the first half of our program on
00:26:11 to the first half of our program on

00:26:11 to the first half of our program on Tuesday May 15th that will go up on our
00:26:15 Tuesday May 15th that will go up on our

00:26:15 Tuesday May 15th that will go up on our website at wwlp.com you can also find it
00:26:19 website at wwlp.com you can also find it

00:26:19 website at wwlp.com you can also find it on itunes podcasts or on any podcasting
00:26:22 on itunes podcasts or on any podcasting

00:26:22 on itunes podcasts or on any podcasting service on your Android device in this
00:26:25 service on your Android device in this

00:26:25 service on your Android device in this segment of the program how we're gonna
00:26:27 segment of the program how we're gonna

00:26:27 segment of the program how we're gonna talk about some of bills other
00:26:29 talk about some of bills other

00:26:29 talk about some of bills other experiences recently here's a in the
00:26:32 experiences recently here's a in the

00:26:32 experiences recently here's a in the cyber world we have a giant annual
00:26:35 cyber world we have a giant annual

00:26:35 cyber world we have a giant annual conference it's now giant because the
00:26:37 conference it's now giant because the

00:26:37 conference it's now giant because the cybersecurity thing is starting to
00:26:38 cybersecurity thing is starting to

00:26:38 cybersecurity thing is starting to matter to more and more people it's
00:26:40 matter to more and more people it's

00:26:40 matter to more and more people it's called RSA you used to originally be
00:26:43 called RSA you used to originally be

00:26:43 called RSA you used to originally be about a company if you've been in the
00:26:44 about a company if you've been in the

00:26:44 about a company if you've been in the cyber industry for quite a while they
00:26:46 cyber industry for quite a while they

00:26:46 cyber industry for quite a while they made the two-factor authentication
00:26:47 made the two-factor authentication

00:26:47 made the two-factor authentication tokens you might have one from your bank
00:26:49 tokens you might have one from your bank

00:26:49 tokens you might have one from your bank these days you might have one from the
00:26:50 these days you might have one from the

00:26:50 these days you might have one from the VPN service for your company that it's
00:26:54 VPN service for your company that it's

00:26:54 VPN service for your company that it's now that conference is massively
00:26:57 now that conference is massively

00:26:57 now that conference is massively outgrown just multi-factor
00:26:59 outgrown just multi-factor

00:26:59 outgrown just multi-factor authentication so can you share a little
00:27:02 authentication so can you share a little

00:27:02 authentication so can you share a little bit for our listeners that have never
00:27:04 bit for our listeners that have never

00:27:04 bit for our listeners that have never experienced RSA or learn much about it
00:27:07 experienced RSA or learn much about it

00:27:07 experienced RSA or learn much about it what went on out there this year and in
00:27:09 what went on out there this year and in

00:27:09 what went on out there this year and in kind of what's your reason is an
00:27:12 kind of what's your reason is an

00:27:12 kind of what's your reason is an industry professional for visiting
00:27:13 industry professional for visiting

00:27:13 industry professional for visiting something like that RSA is in San
00:27:16 something like that RSA is in San

00:27:16 something like that RSA is in San Francisco at Moscone Center once a year
00:27:19 Francisco at Moscone Center once a year

00:27:19 Francisco at Moscone Center once a year they also have it in other locations
00:27:21 they also have it in other locations

00:27:21 they also have it in other locations around the world but that's by far the
00:27:23 around the world but that's by far the

00:27:23 around the world but that's by far the largest gathering of security
00:27:26 largest gathering of security

00:27:26 largest gathering of security professionals from around the world I
00:27:28 professionals from around the world I

00:27:28 professionals from around the world I went this year to showcase and we were
00:27:32 went this year to showcase and we were

00:27:32 went this year to showcase and we were selected from a large number of
00:27:34 selected from a large number of

00:27:34 selected from a large number of companies to be in the early stage Expo
00:27:38 companies to be in the early stage Expo

00:27:38 companies to be in the early stage Expo where new technology was shown to the
00:27:42 where new technology was shown to the

00:27:42 where new technology was shown to the market and that's why are predominantly
00:27:46 market and that's why are predominantly

00:27:46 market and that's why are predominantly why we went out there this year last
00:27:48 why we went out there this year last

00:27:48 why we went out there this year last year I went as well as just wanting to
00:27:51 year I went as well as just wanting to

00:27:51 year I went as well as just wanting to be more informed to see what the market
00:27:54 be more informed to see what the market

00:27:54 be more informed to see what the market doing to understand new products and
00:27:57 doing to understand new products and

00:27:57 doing to understand new products and services surrounding security thousands
00:28:01 services surrounding security thousands

00:28:01 services surrounding security thousands I think there was 41,000 or more people
00:28:04 I think there was 41,000 or more people

00:28:04 I think there was 41,000 or more people end users technology people who attend
00:28:07 end users technology people who attend

00:28:07 end users technology people who attend the show each year yeah
00:28:10 the show each year yeah

00:28:10 the show each year yeah and for for folks in in San Antonio to
00:28:13 and for for folks in in San Antonio to

00:28:13 and for for folks in in San Antonio to give some size scale scope our
00:28:17 give some size scale scope our

00:28:17 give some size scale scope our Convention Center here holds about
00:28:19 Convention Center here holds about

00:28:19 Convention Center here holds about twenty or twenty five thousand so the
00:28:21 twenty or twenty five thousand so the

00:28:21 twenty or twenty five thousand so the masconi's broken up into multiple
00:28:23 masconi's broken up into multiple

00:28:23 masconi's broken up into multiple convention centers and then that RSA
00:28:25 convention centers and then that RSA

00:28:25 convention centers and then that RSA Conference floods the Convention Center
00:28:27 Conference floods the Convention Center

00:28:27 Conference floods the Convention Center and a bunch of hotel exhibition space
00:28:29 and a bunch of hotel exhibition space

00:28:29 and a bunch of hotel exhibition space there it's a one of the probably five
00:28:34 there it's a one of the probably five

00:28:34 there it's a one of the probably five biggest conferences each year in San
00:28:36 biggest conferences each year in San

00:28:36 biggest conferences each year in San Francisco but it's a huge event all now
00:28:40 Francisco but it's a huge event all now

00:28:40 Francisco but it's a huge event all now tied to cybersecurity from
00:28:45 tied to cybersecurity from

00:28:45 tied to cybersecurity from authentication through to network
00:28:47 authentication through to network

00:28:47 authentication through to network through to application security to to
00:28:49 through to application security to to

00:28:49 through to application security to to everything you can think about so as you
00:28:51 everything you can think about so as you

00:28:51 everything you can think about so as you were out there and you're in this new
00:28:53 were out there and you're in this new

00:28:53 were out there and you're in this new technology expo is there anyone working
00:28:55 technology expo is there anyone working

00:28:55 technology expo is there anyone working on something where you in another area
00:28:57 on something where you in another area

00:28:57 on something where you in another area that you thought was interesting to you
00:28:59 that you thought was interesting to you

00:28:59 that you thought was interesting to you as a practitioner that folks should be
00:29:02 as a practitioner that folks should be

00:29:02 as a practitioner that folks should be checking out I can talk about it
00:29:04 checking out I can talk about it

00:29:04 checking out I can talk about it generally I don't know all the buzz
00:29:05 generally I don't know all the buzz

00:29:05 generally I don't know all the buzz words and terms associated with this but
00:29:08 words and terms associated with this but

00:29:08 words and terms associated with this but this is about taking software that has
00:29:11 this is about taking software that has

00:29:11 this is about taking software that has been written for various operating
00:29:14 been written for various operating

00:29:14 been written for various operating systems and putting it into a non
00:29:18 systems and putting it into a non

00:29:18 systems and putting it into a non operating system environment what they
00:29:21 operating system environment what they

00:29:21 operating system environment what they do is they they take your software and
00:29:23 do is they they take your software and

00:29:23 do is they they take your software and they put it into something that let's
00:29:25 they put it into something that let's

00:29:25 they put it into something that let's say it's supposed to run on Linux or
00:29:27 say it's supposed to run on Linux or

00:29:27 say it's supposed to run on Linux or Windows and it doesn't run on wet Linux
00:29:30 Windows and it doesn't run on wet Linux

00:29:30 Windows and it doesn't run on wet Linux and Windows they take the components
00:29:32 and Windows they take the components

00:29:32 and Windows they take the components needed to only run that application so
00:29:35 needed to only run that application so

00:29:35 needed to only run that application so that the operating system that usually
00:29:38 that the operating system that usually

00:29:38 that the operating system that usually runs your application cannot be hacked
00:29:40 runs your application cannot be hacked

00:29:40 runs your application cannot be hacked by other means and I found that really
00:29:44 by other means and I found that really

00:29:44 by other means and I found that really exciting because that's going to lead to
00:29:47 exciting because that's going to lead to

00:29:47 exciting because that's going to lead to our ability to have software that's not
00:29:50 our ability to have software that's not

00:29:50 our ability to have software that's not on an operating system that has these
00:29:54 on an operating system that has these

00:29:54 on an operating system that has these proclivities to have problems yeah well
00:29:57 proclivities to have problems yeah well

00:29:57 proclivities to have problems yeah well minimizing that attack surface again
00:29:59 minimizing that attack surface again

00:29:59 minimizing that attack surface again just back to the same kind of
00:30:00 just back to the same kind of

00:30:00 just back to the same kind of fundamentals with hobb zero it all the
00:30:03 fundamentals with hobb zero it all the

00:30:03 fundamentals with hobb zero it all the different places you can go through to
00:30:04 different places you can go through to

00:30:04 different places you can go through to minimize attack service you make the job
00:30:07 minimize attack service you make the job

00:30:07 minimize attack service you make the job of the hacker
00:30:07 of the hacker

00:30:07 of the hacker much more difficult job of the bad guy
00:30:09 much more difficult job of the bad guy

00:30:09 much more difficult job of the bad guy and it is jobs these days for for those
00:30:12 and it is jobs these days for for those

00:30:12 and it is jobs these days for for those that think hackers are something like
00:30:13 that think hackers are something like

00:30:13 that think hackers are something like out of a movie see on TV or just
00:30:16 out of a movie see on TV or just

00:30:16 out of a movie see on TV or just wargames these are sadly now
00:30:19 wargames these are sadly now

00:30:19 wargames these are sadly now professional criminal organizations and
00:30:22 professional criminal organizations and

00:30:22 professional criminal organizations and in many cases those professional
00:30:24 in many cases those professional

00:30:24 in many cases those professional criminal organizations run as an
00:30:26 criminal organizations run as an

00:30:26 criminal organizations run as an employer inside the country that they're
00:30:27 employer inside the country that they're

00:30:27 employer inside the country that they're operating in with kind of the country
00:30:31 operating in with kind of the country

00:30:31 operating in with kind of the country turning and looking the other direction
00:30:32 turning and looking the other direction

00:30:32 turning and looking the other direction those countries have employment issues
00:30:36 those countries have employment issues

00:30:36 those countries have employment issues they have salary and wage issues they
00:30:38 they have salary and wage issues they

00:30:38 they have salary and wage issues they have economic issues that make them turn
00:30:41 have economic issues that make them turn

00:30:41 have economic issues that make them turn and look the other way and these
00:30:42 and look the other way and these

00:30:42 and look the other way and these criminal organizations agree to not hack
00:30:44 criminal organizations agree to not hack

00:30:44 criminal organizations agree to not hack businesses inside the country they're
00:30:45 businesses inside the country they're

00:30:45 businesses inside the country they're operating from but they're kind of free
00:30:47 operating from but they're kind of free

00:30:47 operating from but they're kind of free to go hack all across the globe and
00:30:49 to go hack all across the globe and

00:30:49 to go hack all across the globe and because the internet is this big
00:30:52 because the internet is this big

00:30:52 because the internet is this big connected highway system that doesn't
00:30:54 connected highway system that doesn't

00:30:54 connected highway system that doesn't necessarily have security checkpoints
00:30:57 necessarily have security checkpoints

00:30:57 necessarily have security checkpoints there's nothing to stop the folks in
00:31:00 there's nothing to stop the folks in

00:31:00 there's nothing to stop the folks in these different places from going in
00:31:03 these different places from going in

00:31:03 these different places from going in hacking stealing information or locking
00:31:06 hacking stealing information or locking

00:31:06 hacking stealing information or locking systems up for ransom or doing these
00:31:07 systems up for ransom or doing these

00:31:07 systems up for ransom or doing these other things and if you think about a
00:31:09 other things and if you think about a

00:31:09 other things and if you think about a police investigation so from a physical
00:31:12 police investigation so from a physical

00:31:12 police investigation so from a physical if you're a business in San Antonio
00:31:14 if you're a business in San Antonio

00:31:14 if you're a business in San Antonio Texas and somebody came in and kidnapped
00:31:18 Texas and somebody came in and kidnapped

00:31:18 Texas and somebody came in and kidnapped your your staff well they're gonna have
00:31:20 your your staff well they're gonna have

00:31:20 your your staff well they're gonna have to physically be at your office location
00:31:22 to physically be at your office location

00:31:22 to physically be at your office location they're going to have to physically hold
00:31:24 they're going to have to physically hold

00:31:24 they're going to have to physically hold it for ransom they are they're the
00:31:27 it for ransom they are they're the

00:31:27 it for ransom they are they're the police in San Antonio the FBI in San
00:31:29 police in San Antonio the FBI in San

00:31:29 police in San Antonio the FBI in San Antonio whoever could come respond to
00:31:31 Antonio whoever could come respond to

00:31:31 Antonio whoever could come respond to that if your business gets attacked
00:31:35 that if your business gets attacked

00:31:35 that if your business gets attacked across the internet those criminals
00:31:37 across the internet those criminals

00:31:37 across the internet those criminals didn't have to physically be here they
00:31:39 didn't have to physically be here they

00:31:39 didn't have to physically be here they got to virtually be here they got to go
00:31:41 got to virtually be here they got to go

00:31:41 got to virtually be here they got to go 22 hops across the internet to get here
00:31:43 22 hops across the internet to get here

00:31:43 22 hops across the internet to get here and those criminals if you call the
00:31:48 and those criminals if you call the

00:31:48 and those criminals if you call the police here in San Antonio they're gonna
00:31:49 police here in San Antonio they're gonna

00:31:49 police here in San Antonio they're gonna forward to the FBI that's gonna get
00:31:51 forward to the FBI that's gonna get

00:31:51 forward to the FBI that's gonna get forwarded through to Interpol Interpol
00:31:53 forwarded through to Interpol Interpol

00:31:53 forwarded through to Interpol Interpol is gonna go we don't have an agreement
00:31:54 is gonna go we don't have an agreement

00:31:54 is gonna go we don't have an agreement to operate inside of that country and we
00:31:56 to operate inside of that country and we

00:31:56 to operate inside of that country and we can't really do anything to help you so
00:31:58 can't really do anything to help you so

00:31:58 can't really do anything to help you so the you have to do things proactively
00:32:00 the you have to do things proactively

00:32:00 the you have to do things proactively yourself to minimize your risk from some
00:32:04 yourself to minimize your risk from some

00:32:04 yourself to minimize your risk from some of these places and I would love to
00:32:07 of these places and I would love to

00:32:07 of these places and I would love to solve the geopolitical problems of the
00:32:09 solve the geopolitical problems of the

00:32:09 solve the geopolitical problems of the world so that countries didn't have the
00:32:12 world so that countries didn't have the

00:32:12 world so that countries didn't have the incentive to allow these type of
00:32:16 incentive to allow these type of

00:32:16 incentive to allow these type of organizations to operate from within
00:32:17 organizations to operate from within

00:32:17 organizations to operate from within their borders to help their economies
00:32:19 their borders to help their economies

00:32:19 their borders to help their economies but that's a topic for
00:32:21 but that's a topic for

00:32:21 but that's a topic for the program and the thing for another
00:32:22 the program and the thing for another

00:32:22 the program and the thing for another time and while the world is growing up
00:32:26 time and while the world is growing up

00:32:26 time and while the world is growing up in the way it is today we're the onus is
00:32:30 in the way it is today we're the onus is

00:32:30 in the way it is today we're the onus is on us to do things to to protect
00:32:32 on us to do things to to protect

00:32:32 on us to do things to to protect ourselves and another application that
00:32:36 ourselves and another application that

00:32:36 ourselves and another application that had a lot of talk was of course
00:32:40 had a lot of talk was of course

00:32:40 had a lot of talk was of course blockchain and blockchain is the
00:32:43 blockchain and blockchain is the

00:32:43 blockchain and blockchain is the technology the ledger technology behind
00:32:47 technology the ledger technology behind

00:32:47 technology the ledger technology behind Bitcoin and and of course that works
00:32:50 Bitcoin and and of course that works

00:32:50 Bitcoin and and of course that works perfectly for that I ran into an old
00:32:53 perfectly for that I ran into an old

00:32:53 perfectly for that I ran into an old friend of mine Radia Perlman now Radia
00:32:55 friend of mine Radia Perlman now Radia

00:32:55 friend of mine Radia Perlman now Radia was the one if you've ever heard of a
00:32:58 was the one if you've ever heard of a

00:32:58 was the one if you've ever heard of a switch or a layer to switch
00:33:00 switch or a layer to switch

00:33:00 switch or a layer to switch she wrote the protocol that keeps loops
00:33:02 she wrote the protocol that keeps loops

00:33:02 she wrote the protocol that keeps loops from occurring and that's called the
00:33:04 from occurring and that's called the

00:33:04 from occurring and that's called the spanning tree algorithm and Radia is a
00:33:07 spanning tree algorithm and Radia is a

00:33:08 spanning tree algorithm and Radia is a brilliant woman who has when you think
00:33:11 brilliant woman who has when you think

00:33:11 brilliant woman who has when you think of brilliant women in the industry you
00:33:14 of brilliant women in the industry you

00:33:14 of brilliant women in the industry you think of Grace Hopper the Admiral who
00:33:17 think of Grace Hopper the Admiral who

00:33:17 think of Grace Hopper the Admiral who brought a lot of Technology in well
00:33:20 brought a lot of Technology in well

00:33:20 brought a lot of Technology in well Radia is kind of another person another
00:33:24 Radia is kind of another person another

00:33:24 Radia is kind of another person another woman who is seriously brought
00:33:26 woman who is seriously brought

00:33:26 woman who is seriously brought technology in she has just written a
00:33:28 technology in she has just written a

00:33:28 technology in she has just written a white paper claiming that probably
00:33:32 white paper claiming that probably

00:33:32 white paper claiming that probably blockchain isn't a perfect application
00:33:35 blockchain isn't a perfect application

00:33:35 blockchain isn't a perfect application for every kind of use it works good with
00:33:39 for every kind of use it works good with

00:33:39 for every kind of use it works good with Bitcoin but not with the with the other
00:33:44 Bitcoin but not with the with the other

00:33:44 Bitcoin but not with the with the other applications that people are trying to
00:33:46 applications that people are trying to

00:33:46 applications that people are trying to apply it to although it's very
00:33:48 apply it to although it's very

00:33:48 apply it to although it's very interesting so if somebody wants to look
00:33:51 interesting so if somebody wants to look

00:33:51 interesting so if somebody wants to look up and find out a little bit more about
00:33:53 up and find out a little bit more about

00:33:53 up and find out a little bit more about blockchain she has a white paper that
00:33:55 blockchain she has a white paper that

00:33:55 blockchain she has a white paper that she's written out there that basically
00:33:58 she's written out there that basically

00:33:58 she's written out there that basically is the other side of the coin so to
00:34:02 is the other side of the coin so to

00:34:02 is the other side of the coin so to speak yeah and if you follow us on
00:34:05 speak yeah and if you follow us on

00:34:05 speak yeah and if you follow us on Twitter its cyber talk radio we'll get a
00:34:07 Twitter its cyber talk radio we'll get a

00:34:07 Twitter its cyber talk radio we'll get a link to that up probably with the blog
00:34:09 link to that up probably with the blog

00:34:09 link to that up probably with the blog post an episode recap that we will will
00:34:12 post an episode recap that we will will

00:34:12 post an episode recap that we will will do for the program here so definitely
00:34:14 do for the program here so definitely

00:34:14 do for the program here so definitely interesting reading that's blockchains
00:34:17 interesting reading that's blockchains

00:34:17 interesting reading that's blockchains going to be an area with lots of
00:34:18 going to be an area with lots of

00:34:18 going to be an area with lots of innovation there's counties out there
00:34:21 innovation there's counties out there

00:34:21 innovation there's counties out there going to using blockchain based things
00:34:23 going to using blockchain based things

00:34:23 going to using blockchain based things for title searches and for deed history
00:34:25 for title searches and for deed history

00:34:25 for title searches and for deed history and records on property there's some
00:34:27 and records on property there's some

00:34:27 and records on property there's some interesting places that it's going to
00:34:28 interesting places that it's going to

00:34:29 interesting places that it's going to get used and I think that we're gonna
00:34:30 get used and I think that we're gonna

00:34:30 get used and I think that we're gonna see over the next 10 years or 20 years
00:34:32 see over the next 10 years or 20 years

00:34:32 see over the next 10 years or 20 years some places where people use it and
00:34:34 some places where people use it and

00:34:34 some places where people use it and you're going
00:34:35 you're going

00:34:35 you're going look back and go oh they really
00:34:36 look back and go oh they really

00:34:36 look back and go oh they really shouldn't have done that so hopefully
00:34:38 shouldn't have done that so hopefully

00:34:38 shouldn't have done that so hopefully reading her white paper will help some
00:34:40 reading her white paper will help some

00:34:40 reading her white paper will help some folks avoid those decisions that put
00:34:43 folks avoid those decisions that put

00:34:43 folks avoid those decisions that put them down a path of regret later on
00:34:45 them down a path of regret later on

00:34:45 them down a path of regret later on because after you make a technology
00:34:48 because after you make a technology

00:34:48 because after you make a technology choice it's it's often pretty hard to go
00:34:50 choice it's it's often pretty hard to go

00:34:50 choice it's it's often pretty hard to go back and make a wholesale change of
00:34:53 back and make a wholesale change of

00:34:53 back and make a wholesale change of something like that this is why you end
00:34:56 something like that this is why you end

00:34:56 something like that this is why you end up making add-ons and security measures
00:35:01 up making add-ons and security measures

00:35:01 up making add-ons and security measures and controls around the system rather
00:35:03 and controls around the system rather

00:35:03 and controls around the system rather than just replacing the whole system
00:35:04 than just replacing the whole system

00:35:04 than just replacing the whole system itself so it was really exciting to
00:35:07 itself so it was really exciting to

00:35:07 itself so it was really exciting to bring out hop zero and hop sphere radius
00:35:11 bring out hop zero and hop sphere radius

00:35:11 bring out hop zero and hop sphere radius security to the RSA event we received a
00:35:16 security to the RSA event we received a

00:35:16 security to the RSA event we received a lot of interest from Cisco and juniper
00:35:19 lot of interest from Cisco and juniper

00:35:19 lot of interest from Cisco and juniper and Symantec and just a lot of vendors
00:35:23 and Symantec and just a lot of vendors

00:35:23 and Symantec and just a lot of vendors who are amazed that gee this sounds like
00:35:26 who are amazed that gee this sounds like

00:35:26 who are amazed that gee this sounds like an incredibly good idea and they always
00:35:29 an incredibly good idea and they always

00:35:29 an incredibly good idea and they always ask why didn't someone think of this
00:35:32 ask why didn't someone think of this

00:35:32 ask why didn't someone think of this before and then they kind of look at me
00:35:34 before and then they kind of look at me

00:35:34 before and then they kind of look at me curiously to wonder you know why you
00:35:37 curiously to wonder you know why you

00:35:37 curiously to wonder you know why you yeah and they're gonna go back to their
00:35:40 yeah and they're gonna go back to their

00:35:40 yeah and they're gonna go back to their R&D teams and go how did we not patent
00:35:42 R&D teams and go how did we not patent

00:35:42 R&D teams and go how did we not patent this yeah cuz now they can't go do it
00:35:45 this yeah cuz now they can't go do it

00:35:45 this yeah cuz now they can't go do it well they can they just need to call you
00:35:47 well they can they just need to call you

00:35:47 well they can they just need to call you and get a license there you go yes so
00:35:49 and get a license there you go yes so

00:35:49 and get a license there you go yes so bills phone is waiting for your phone
00:35:51 bills phone is waiting for your phone

00:35:51 bills phone is waiting for your phone call at Cisco so as you were out there
00:35:55 call at Cisco so as you were out there

00:35:55 call at Cisco so as you were out there working on this and we're gonna air here
00:35:58 working on this and we're gonna air here

00:35:58 working on this and we're gonna air here in the middle of May on Saturday night
00:36:01 in the middle of May on Saturday night

00:36:01 in the middle of May on Saturday night and there's gonna be some cyber folks
00:36:03 and there's gonna be some cyber folks

00:36:03 and there's gonna be some cyber folks that are probably up right now working
00:36:06 that are probably up right now working

00:36:06 that are probably up right now working well listen to this because they're
00:36:07 well listen to this because they're

00:36:07 well listen to this because they're trying to figure out how to deal with
00:36:08 trying to figure out how to deal with

00:36:08 trying to figure out how to deal with gdpr they're gonna try to figure how to
00:36:10 gdpr they're gonna try to figure how to

00:36:10 gdpr they're gonna try to figure how to deal with the requirements around data
00:36:13 deal with the requirements around data

00:36:13 deal with the requirements around data exfiltration and data notice and the
00:36:15 exfiltration and data notice and the

00:36:15 exfiltration and data notice and the rest of these as I'm thinking through
00:36:18 rest of these as I'm thinking through

00:36:18 rest of these as I'm thinking through this just in my own head sure seems like
00:36:22 this just in my own head sure seems like

00:36:22 this just in my own head sure seems like hop zero and this type of technology is
00:36:24 hop zero and this type of technology is

00:36:24 hop zero and this type of technology is a great way to be able to go back to a
00:36:26 a great way to be able to go back to a

00:36:26 a great way to be able to go back to a regulator and say my hop count on my
00:36:29 regulator and say my hop count on my

00:36:29 regulator and say my hop count on my database server that contains the sense
00:36:30 database server that contains the sense

00:36:30 database server that contains the sense of information is set to one and that
00:36:34 of information is set to one and that

00:36:34 of information is set to one and that means only these direct computers can
00:36:36 means only these direct computers can

00:36:36 means only these direct computers can talk to it it can't go any further than
00:36:38 talk to it it can't go any further than

00:36:38 talk to it it can't go any further than this I have evidence that these systems
00:36:41 this I have evidence that these systems

00:36:41 this I have evidence that these systems are all secured controlled and they have
00:36:44 are all secured controlled and they have

00:36:44 are all secured controlled and they have not been compromised and that means the
00:36:46 not been compromised and that means the

00:36:46 not been compromised and that means the data could not have leaked any further
00:36:48 data could not have leaked any further

00:36:48 data could not have leaked any further than this
00:36:49 than this

00:36:49 than this so like there's from a hack or a data
00:36:51 so like there's from a hack or a data

00:36:51 so like there's from a hack or a data exfiltration perspective the information
00:36:52 exfiltration perspective the information

00:36:52 exfiltration perspective the information couldn't get off of the network and you
00:36:54 couldn't get off of the network and you

00:36:54 couldn't get off of the network and you could go definitively prove that pretty
00:36:56 could go definitively prove that pretty

00:36:56 could go definitively prove that pretty easily exactly and in our effort to
00:36:59 easily exactly and in our effort to

00:36:59 easily exactly and in our effort to determine what the appropriate hop count
00:37:03 determine what the appropriate hop count

00:37:03 determine what the appropriate hop count is we look at every packet that goes in
00:37:06 is we look at every packet that goes in

00:37:06 is we look at every packet that goes in and out of your organization or in and
00:37:09 and out of your organization or in and

00:37:09 and out of your organization or in and out of a data center and we tell you
00:37:12 out of a data center and we tell you

00:37:12 out of a data center and we tell you exactly where your data is going after
00:37:16 exactly where your data is going after

00:37:16 exactly where your data is going after we have mapped out where your data is
00:37:18 we have mapped out where your data is

00:37:18 we have mapped out where your data is going around the globe we sit down with
00:37:21 going around the globe we sit down with

00:37:21 going around the globe we sit down with the data owner of that application who
00:37:24 the data owner of that application who

00:37:24 the data owner of that application who is a gas to see their information
00:37:27 is a gas to see their information

00:37:27 is a gas to see their information exfiltrating to Kazakhstan and other
00:37:30 exfiltrating to Kazakhstan and other

00:37:30 exfiltrating to Kazakhstan and other parts of the globe unbeknownst to anyone
00:37:33 parts of the globe unbeknownst to anyone

00:37:33 parts of the globe unbeknownst to anyone and you know the security people are
00:37:36 and you know the security people are

00:37:36 and you know the security people are doing a really good job trying to watch
00:37:38 doing a really good job trying to watch

00:37:38 doing a really good job trying to watch where your data is going and but it's
00:37:41 where your data is going and but it's

00:37:41 where your data is going and but it's really illustrative to have a map of
00:37:45 really illustrative to have a map of

00:37:45 really illustrative to have a map of where your HR database is going where
00:37:50 where your HR database is going where

00:37:50 where your HR database is going where your particular owned application s AP
00:37:54 your particular owned application s AP

00:37:54 your particular owned application s AP application is going across the internet
00:37:57 application is going across the internet

00:37:57 application is going across the internet and it's it's amazing to see that where
00:38:01 and it's it's amazing to see that where

00:38:01 and it's it's amazing to see that where your data is going and people are aghast
00:38:04 your data is going and people are aghast

00:38:04 your data is going and people are aghast to see that it's traveling to faraway
00:38:06 to see that it's traveling to faraway

00:38:06 to see that it's traveling to faraway locations unbeknownst to them yeah so if
00:38:10 locations unbeknownst to them yeah so if

00:38:10 locations unbeknownst to them yeah so if I wanted to do discovery with Hobbs 0 so
00:38:13 I wanted to do discovery with Hobbs 0 so

00:38:13 I wanted to do discovery with Hobbs 0 so say I just want to understand where my
00:38:14 say I just want to understand where my

00:38:14 say I just want to understand where my information is traveling what does that
00:38:16 information is traveling what does that

00:38:16 information is traveling what does that look like by I call you on the phone and
00:38:18 look like by I call you on the phone and

00:38:18 look like by I call you on the phone and say hey bill can you come out next week
00:38:20 say hey bill can you come out next week

00:38:20 say hey bill can you come out next week and send your team and let's go ahead
00:38:23 and send your team and let's go ahead

00:38:23 and send your team and let's go ahead and do discovery for my my tier 1
00:38:25 and do discovery for my my tier 1

00:38:25 and do discovery for my my tier 1 applications actually it's easier than
00:38:28 applications actually it's easier than

00:38:28 applications actually it's easier than that Brett what we do is we instruct
00:38:31 that Brett what we do is we instruct

00:38:31 that Brett what we do is we instruct your security people to give us just the
00:38:34 your security people to give us just the

00:38:34 your security people to give us just the network headers just the information
00:38:36 network headers just the information

00:38:36 network headers just the information that routes packets they give us that
00:38:40 that routes packets they give us that

00:38:40 that routes packets they give us that information a small snapshot we take it
00:38:44 information a small snapshot we take it

00:38:44 information a small snapshot we take it put it into our mapping system analyze
00:38:47 put it into our mapping system analyze

00:38:47 put it into our mapping system analyze it and then show you on a map where your
00:38:50 it and then show you on a map where your

00:38:50 it and then show you on a map where your data is traveling and when you click on
00:38:52 data is traveling and when you click on

00:38:52 data is traveling and when you click on one of those points it tells you is this
00:38:55 one of those points it tells you is this

00:38:55 one of those points it tells you is this a tour exit node is this an anonymous
00:38:59 a tour exit node is this an anonymous

00:38:59 a tour exit node is this an anonymous VPN all of this type of information
00:39:02 VPN all of this type of information

00:39:02 VPN all of this type of information out that particular point that you're
00:39:04 out that particular point that you're

00:39:04 out that particular point that you're communicating with we also tell you how
00:39:07 communicating with we also tell you how

00:39:07 communicating with we also tell you how much information is exfiltrating out to
00:39:10 much information is exfiltrating out to

00:39:10 much information is exfiltrating out to that point and how much information is
00:39:12 that point and how much information is

00:39:12 that point and how much information is coming in from that point and because we
00:39:14 coming in from that point and because we

00:39:14 coming in from that point and because we have such a performance analysis
00:39:17 have such a performance analysis

00:39:17 have such a performance analysis background we just went ahead and said
00:39:19 background we just went ahead and said

00:39:19 background we just went ahead and said okay well what's the throughput that
00:39:22 okay well what's the throughput that

00:39:22 okay well what's the throughput that this device is sending your data to
00:39:25 this device is sending your data to

00:39:25 this device is sending your data to determine the sophistication level of
00:39:27 determine the sophistication level of

00:39:27 determine the sophistication level of who's hacking you or who's getting into
00:39:30 who's hacking you or who's getting into

00:39:30 who's hacking you or who's getting into your information and we do latency
00:39:32 your information and we do latency

00:39:32 your information and we do latency analysis on all of those so when you
00:39:34 analysis on all of those so when you

00:39:34 analysis on all of those so when you click on one of those points you're
00:39:37 click on one of those points you're

00:39:37 click on one of those points you're presented with a whole bunch of very
00:39:39 presented with a whole bunch of very

00:39:39 presented with a whole bunch of very valuable information about who you are
00:39:41 valuable information about who you are

00:39:41 valuable information about who you are talking to and we have found for
00:39:45 talking to and we have found for

00:39:45 talking to and we have found for instance on some applications just
00:39:49 instance on some applications just

00:39:49 instance on some applications just looking at all the data and we found
00:39:51 looking at all the data and we found

00:39:51 looking at all the data and we found HVAC systems communicating around the
00:39:55 HVAC systems communicating around the

00:39:55 HVAC systems communicating around the world yeah and creating market would
00:39:58 world yeah and creating market would

00:39:58 world yeah and creating market would have liked to know about that a little
00:40:00 have liked to know about that a little

00:40:00 have liked to know about that a little bit sooner yeah for those not hearing my
00:40:02 bit sooner yeah for those not hearing my

00:40:02 bit sooner yeah for those not hearing my joke and it's not really much of a joke
00:40:04 joke and it's not really much of a joke

00:40:04 joke and it's not really much of a joke for those not hearing or understanding
00:40:05 for those not hearing or understanding

00:40:05 for those not hearing or understanding my comment the target the data breach
00:40:09 my comment the target the data breach

00:40:09 my comment the target the data breach there was through their HVAC vendor air
00:40:12 there was through their HVAC vendor air

00:40:12 there was through their HVAC vendor air in their air conditioning and control
00:40:14 in their air conditioning and control

00:40:14 in their air conditioning and control system and it's amazing you know once
00:40:18 system and it's amazing you know once

00:40:18 system and it's amazing you know once the application owner sits down and
00:40:21 the application owner sits down and

00:40:21 the application owner sits down and looks at that's at where your data is
00:40:23 looks at that's at where your data is

00:40:23 looks at that's at where your data is going the then what that does is it
00:40:27 going the then what that does is it

00:40:27 going the then what that does is it allows the application owner of that
00:40:29 allows the application owner of that

00:40:29 allows the application owner of that information to sit down with the
00:40:32 information to sit down with the

00:40:32 information to sit down with the security people and to begin to mitigate
00:40:34 security people and to begin to mitigate

00:40:34 security people and to begin to mitigate where that data is going because if you
00:40:37 where that data is going because if you

00:40:37 where that data is going because if you think about it the security people are
00:40:40 think about it the security people are

00:40:40 think about it the security people are in darkened rooms looking through logs
00:40:42 in darkened rooms looking through logs

00:40:42 in darkened rooms looking through logs looking at Splunk data looking at log
00:40:44 looking at Splunk data looking at log

00:40:44 looking at Splunk data looking at log data trying to determine where your data
00:40:46 data trying to determine where your data

00:40:46 data trying to determine where your data is going but they don't always know
00:40:48 is going but they don't always know

00:40:48 is going but they don't always know where it is supposed to go and not
00:40:50 where it is supposed to go and not

00:40:50 where it is supposed to go and not supposed to go who knows that the
00:40:53 supposed to go who knows that the

00:40:53 supposed to go who knows that the application data owner knows that so we
00:40:56 application data owner knows that so we

00:40:56 application data owner knows that so we present our maps to those owners of
00:40:58 present our maps to those owners of

00:40:58 present our maps to those owners of information the business people and say
00:41:00 information the business people and say

00:41:00 information the business people and say this is where your data is going and
00:41:02 this is where your data is going and

00:41:02 this is where your data is going and what that does is magically begin to get
00:41:06 what that does is magically begin to get

00:41:06 what that does is magically begin to get the people with the money and the
00:41:08 the people with the money and the

00:41:08 the people with the money and the influence and the business units into
00:41:11 influence and the business units into

00:41:11 influence and the business units into the security space helping the security
00:41:13 the security space helping the security

00:41:13 the security space helping the security people and funding those
00:41:16 people and funding those

00:41:16 people and funding those initiatives to go about mitigating this
00:41:19 initiatives to go about mitigating this

00:41:19 initiatives to go about mitigating this data traveling to places beyond where
00:41:22 data traveling to places beyond where

00:41:22 data traveling to places beyond where they care for it to be traveling yeah no
00:41:25 they care for it to be traveling yeah no

00:41:25 they care for it to be traveling yeah no it'll be interesting to see with the the
00:41:27 it'll be interesting to see with the the

00:41:27 it'll be interesting to see with the the size of the fines on GDP our how this
00:41:32 size of the fines on GDP our how this

00:41:32 size of the fines on GDP our how this changes some of the business risk
00:41:33 changes some of the business risk

00:41:33 changes some of the business risk decisions cuz I think if you go look I
00:41:37 decisions cuz I think if you go look I

00:41:37 decisions cuz I think if you go look I mean what I've heard on the the Equifax
00:41:39 mean what I've heard on the the Equifax

00:41:39 mean what I've heard on the the Equifax breach has cost two hundred and fifty
00:41:41 breach has cost two hundred and fifty

00:41:41 breach has cost two hundred and fifty million dollars they've gone they've
00:41:44 million dollars they've gone they've

00:41:44 million dollars they've gone they've blown their insurance policy out of the
00:41:45 blown their insurance policy out of the

00:41:45 blown their insurance policy out of the water they've been on the hook for a big
00:41:47 water they've been on the hook for a big

00:41:47 water they've been on the hook for a big chunk of that themselves but many of
00:41:51 chunk of that themselves but many of

00:41:51 chunk of that themselves but many of these data breaches end up being twenty
00:41:53 these data breaches end up being twenty

00:41:53 these data breaches end up being twenty thirty fifty million dollars and if
00:41:55 thirty fifty million dollars and if

00:41:55 thirty fifty million dollars and if you're a multinational many billion
00:41:58 you're a multinational many billion

00:41:58 you're a multinational many billion dollar revenue company you sadly enough
00:42:01 dollar revenue company you sadly enough

00:42:01 dollar revenue company you sadly enough we have ended up with ten million dollar
00:42:03 we have ended up with ten million dollar

00:42:03 we have ended up with ten million dollar mistakes on a fairly regular basis and
00:42:05 mistakes on a fairly regular basis and

00:42:05 mistakes on a fairly regular basis and you have to just kind of take that as
00:42:07 you have to just kind of take that as

00:42:07 you have to just kind of take that as part of doing business but now with the
00:42:10 part of doing business but now with the

00:42:10 part of doing business but now with the GDP are I mean we looking at potentially
00:42:14 GDP are I mean we looking at potentially

00:42:14 GDP are I mean we looking at potentially billion dollar fines for this and I
00:42:18 billion dollar fines for this and I

00:42:18 billion dollar fines for this and I think every company in the world looks
00:42:21 think every company in the world looks

00:42:21 think every company in the world looks at a billion dollars and that's still a
00:42:22 at a billion dollars and that's still a

00:42:22 at a billion dollars and that's still a real number even Apple and and to to
00:42:26 real number even Apple and and to to

00:42:26 real number even Apple and and to to build on that GDP are they will they
00:42:31 build on that GDP are they will they

00:42:31 build on that GDP are they will they have the ability to assess up to four
00:42:34 have the ability to assess up to four

00:42:34 have the ability to assess up to four percent of your global revenue gross
00:42:37 percent of your global revenue gross

00:42:37 percent of your global revenue gross revenue not net revenue which is an
00:42:40 revenue not net revenue which is an

00:42:40 revenue not net revenue which is an amazing amount so in our product when
00:42:44 amazing amount so in our product when

00:42:44 amazing amount so in our product when you get one of the maps that your data
00:42:47 you get one of the maps that your data

00:42:47 you get one of the maps that your data is is is represented as two going or
00:42:50 is is is represented as two going or

00:42:50 is is is represented as two going or coming from we have a button you click
00:42:52 coming from we have a button you click

00:42:52 coming from we have a button you click GDP are and guess what it shows you all
00:42:56 GDP are and guess what it shows you all

00:42:56 GDP are and guess what it shows you all the places on the map that you need to
00:42:59 the places on the map that you need to

00:42:59 the places on the map that you need to apply and make certain any data that you
00:43:02 apply and make certain any data that you

00:43:02 apply and make certain any data that you are getting from that nation you are
00:43:04 are getting from that nation you are

00:43:04 are getting from that nation you are treating appropriately for the GDP our
00:43:07 treating appropriately for the GDP our

00:43:07 treating appropriately for the GDP our rules so you can provide visibility to
00:43:09 rules so you can provide visibility to

00:43:09 rules so you can provide visibility to that as well exactly any port or
00:43:12 that as well exactly any port or

00:43:12 that as well exactly any port or protocol a lot of people look at it and
00:43:14 protocol a lot of people look at it and

00:43:14 protocol a lot of people look at it and say we've been trying to get SSL on all
00:43:18 say we've been trying to get SSL on all

00:43:18 say we've been trying to get SSL on all of our web servers and throughout our
00:43:20 of our web servers and throughout our

00:43:20 of our web servers and throughout our entire company and then they'll find
00:43:23 entire company and then they'll find

00:43:23 entire company and then they'll find that port 80 which is the HTTP protocol
00:43:26 that port 80 which is the HTTP protocol

00:43:26 that port 80 which is the HTTP protocol is open
00:43:27 is open

00:43:27 is open well you click a button and it will
00:43:29 well you click a button and it will

00:43:29 well you click a button and it will show you where all your port 80 is going
00:43:31 show you where all your port 80 is going

00:43:31 show you where all your port 80 is going around the world and also how much
00:43:34 around the world and also how much

00:43:34 around the world and also how much information is going out and how much is
00:43:37 information is going out and how much is

00:43:37 information is going out and how much is getting in by each pier going in and out
00:43:42 getting in by each pier going in and out

00:43:42 getting in by each pier going in and out of your organization they say and you
00:43:44 of your organization they say and you

00:43:44 of your organization they say and you can probably speak more highly on this
00:43:47 can probably speak more highly on this

00:43:48 can probably speak more highly on this than I that it takes about two hundred
00:43:50 than I that it takes about two hundred

00:43:50 than I that it takes about two hundred and fifty days to find that you've been
00:43:53 and fifty days to find that you've been

00:43:53 and fifty days to find that you've been infiltrated and so the hacker is sitting
00:43:56 infiltrated and so the hacker is sitting

00:43:56 infiltrated and so the hacker is sitting there having a field day for 250 days I
00:43:59 there having a field day for 250 days I

00:44:00 there having a field day for 250 days I mean that's just under a year that they
00:44:02 mean that's just under a year that they

00:44:02 mean that's just under a year that they are having free rein and by looking at
00:44:05 are having free rein and by looking at

00:44:05 are having free rein and by looking at where your data is going and getting the
00:44:08 where your data is going and getting the

00:44:08 where your data is going and getting the end user involved it very rapidly starts
00:44:12 end user involved it very rapidly starts

00:44:12 end user involved it very rapidly starts to mitigate and it's not only on the
00:44:14 to mitigate and it's not only on the

00:44:14 to mitigate and it's not only on the shoulder of all the security people
00:44:16 shoulder of all the security people

00:44:16 shoulder of all the security people thousands of security people are trying
00:44:19 thousands of security people are trying

00:44:19 thousands of security people are trying to figure out what to do but they need
00:44:21 to figure out what to do but they need

00:44:21 to figure out what to do but they need some input they need some help from the
00:44:24 some input they need some help from the

00:44:24 some input they need some help from the data owners by looking at where their
00:44:26 data owners by looking at where their

00:44:26 data owners by looking at where their data is going and giving them
00:44:28 data is going and giving them

00:44:28 data is going and giving them information and saying no it shouldn't
00:44:30 information and saying no it shouldn't

00:44:30 information and saying no it shouldn't go here and yes it should go there yeah
00:44:33 go here and yes it should go there yeah

00:44:33 go here and yes it should go there yeah that the interestingly enough you would
00:44:35 that the interestingly enough you would

00:44:35 that the interestingly enough you would think it's good news that the average on
00:44:37 think it's good news that the average on

00:44:37 think it's good news that the average on the amount of time it's taking a
00:44:39 the amount of time it's taking a

00:44:39 the amount of time it's taking a business to detect it's been hacked is
00:44:41 business to detect it's been hacked is

00:44:41 business to detect it's been hacked is going down you're like well this is
00:44:43 going down you're like well this is

00:44:43 going down you're like well this is great we're doing good work well what it
00:44:45 great we're doing good work well what it

00:44:45 great we're doing good work well what it turns out is that that number is going
00:44:47 turns out is that that number is going

00:44:47 turns out is that that number is going down because of ransomware as you find
00:44:50 down because of ransomware as you find

00:44:50 down because of ransomware as you find out immediately that you've been hacked
00:44:52 out immediately that you've been hacked

00:44:52 out immediately that you've been hacked when the pop-up shows up on your
00:44:53 when the pop-up shows up on your

00:44:53 when the pop-up shows up on your computer screen so there's all these
00:44:55 computer screen so there's all these

00:44:55 computer screen so there's all these data points now that are it one day
00:44:57 data points now that are it one day

00:44:57 data points now that are it one day immediately you've been discovered in
00:44:59 immediately you've been discovered in

00:44:59 immediately you've been discovered in one day that you've been hacked
00:45:00 one day that you've been hacked

00:45:00 one day that you've been hacked so that numbers down to about six months
00:45:02 so that numbers down to about six months

00:45:02 so that numbers down to about six months on average still even with all of those
00:45:04 on average still even with all of those

00:45:04 on average still even with all of those ransomware pop-ups out there it's still
00:45:06 ransomware pop-ups out there it's still

00:45:06 ransomware pop-ups out there it's still taking an average of six months and
00:45:08 taking an average of six months and

00:45:08 taking an average of six months and we've had on Chris Garrett's who used to
00:45:11 we've had on Chris Garrett's who used to

00:45:11 we've had on Chris Garrett's who used to be in the the US Air Force doing malware
00:45:13 be in the the US Air Force doing malware

00:45:13 be in the the US Air Force doing malware hunting and network reconnaissance and
00:45:16 hunting and network reconnaissance and

00:45:16 hunting and network reconnaissance and so he talked about hunt and trying to go
00:45:20 so he talked about hunt and trying to go

00:45:20 so he talked about hunt and trying to go find attackers that are already in your
00:45:22 find attackers that are already in your

00:45:22 find attackers that are already in your network and I mean I think something
00:45:25 network and I mean I think something

00:45:25 network and I mean I think something like what y'all are doing with Hobbs
00:45:26 like what y'all are doing with Hobbs

00:45:26 like what y'all are doing with Hobbs zero is - they're gonna get in sadly
00:45:29 zero is - they're gonna get in sadly

00:45:29 zero is - they're gonna get in sadly enough and anything you can do to slow
00:45:31 enough and anything you can do to slow

00:45:31 enough and anything you can do to slow them down to make their life more
00:45:32 them down to make their life more

00:45:32 them down to make their life more difficult to make their life more
00:45:34 difficult to make their life more

00:45:34 difficult to make their life more complicated it will increase your odds -
00:45:39 complicated it will increase your odds -

00:45:39 complicated it will increase your odds - that you are able to successfully
00:45:41 that you are able to successfully

00:45:41 that you are able to successfully mitigate and
00:45:42 mitigate and

00:45:42 mitigate and cuz if you go on like the physical
00:45:44 cuz if you go on like the physical

00:45:44 cuz if you go on like the physical person an analogy if if I go next door
00:45:47 person an analogy if if I go next door

00:45:47 person an analogy if if I go next door into a high-rise office building and I
00:45:49 into a high-rise office building and I

00:45:49 into a high-rise office building and I start walking around floor to floor I
00:45:51 start walking around floor to floor I

00:45:51 start walking around floor to floor I probably can get over there I can
00:45:53 probably can get over there I can

00:45:53 probably can get over there I can tailgate somebody through a door I can
00:45:55 tailgate somebody through a door I can

00:45:55 tailgate somebody through a door I can get in and I can wander around the
00:45:57 get in and I can wander around the

00:45:57 get in and I can wander around the building but am I really gonna be able
00:45:58 building but am I really gonna be able

00:45:58 building but am I really gonna be able to grab somebody's laptop or some other
00:46:00 to grab somebody's laptop or some other

00:46:00 to grab somebody's laptop or some other sensitive records and get out of the
00:46:02 sensitive records and get out of the

00:46:02 sensitive records and get out of the building before anybody notices
00:46:03 building before anybody notices

00:46:03 building before anybody notices hopefully not but the longer I'm allowed
00:46:06 hopefully not but the longer I'm allowed

00:46:06 hopefully not but the longer I'm allowed to wander around and the the fewer
00:46:08 to wander around and the the fewer

00:46:08 to wander around and the the fewer locked doors you have if you don't have
00:46:10 locked doors you have if you don't have

00:46:10 locked doors you have if you don't have laptop chains locking the laptops down
00:46:12 laptop chains locking the laptops down

00:46:12 laptop chains locking the laptops down to desks and those sorts of things the
00:46:14 to desks and those sorts of things the

00:46:14 to desks and those sorts of things the easier it's gonna be for me to steal a
00:46:16 easier it's gonna be for me to steal a

00:46:16 easier it's gonna be for me to steal a laptop if I had a chain lock down to the
00:46:19 laptop if I had a chain lock down to the

00:46:19 laptop if I had a chain lock down to the desk I've gotta have bolt cutters with
00:46:20 desk I've gotta have bolt cutters with

00:46:20 desk I've gotta have bolt cutters with him if I don't have bolt cutters well I
00:46:22 him if I don't have bolt cutters well I

00:46:22 him if I don't have bolt cutters well I just failed on that attempt I gotta come
00:46:23 just failed on that attempt I gotta come

00:46:23 just failed on that attempt I gotta come back with them again tomorrow so all the
00:46:25 back with them again tomorrow so all the

00:46:25 back with them again tomorrow so all the things you can do digitally to make it
00:46:27 things you can do digitally to make it

00:46:27 things you can do digitally to make it more difficult for the attackers is
00:46:29 more difficult for the attackers is

00:46:29 more difficult for the attackers is important each one of these adds up to
00:46:31 important each one of these adds up to

00:46:31 important each one of these adds up to increasing the likelihood that they get
00:46:33 increasing the likelihood that they get

00:46:33 increasing the likelihood that they get caught or they give up and they move on
00:46:35 caught or they give up and they move on

00:46:35 caught or they give up and they move on to an easier target and one of the
00:46:37 to an easier target and one of the

00:46:37 to an easier target and one of the troubles is the social engineering
00:46:38 troubles is the social engineering

00:46:38 troubles is the social engineering aspect like you talked about of sending
00:46:42 aspect like you talked about of sending

00:46:42 aspect like you talked about of sending in phishing and spear phishing where
00:46:46 in phishing and spear phishing where

00:46:46 in phishing and spear phishing where they send you an email and it looks like
00:46:48 they send you an email and it looks like

00:46:48 they send you an email and it looks like your bank it looks like your boss it
00:46:50 your bank it looks like your boss it

00:46:50 your bank it looks like your boss it looks like your friend and you click on
00:46:52 looks like your friend and you click on

00:46:52 looks like your friend and you click on that and boom you're going to North
00:46:55 that and boom you're going to North

00:46:55 that and boom you're going to North Korea and you're gonna get compromised
00:46:57 Korea and you're gonna get compromised

00:46:57 Korea and you're gonna get compromised well part of what Hobbs zero hop sphere
00:47:00 well part of what Hobbs zero hop sphere

00:47:00 well part of what Hobbs zero hop sphere radius security does is lower those
00:47:03 radius security does is lower those

00:47:03 radius security does is lower those number of hops that devices are able to
00:47:06 number of hops that devices are able to

00:47:06 number of hops that devices are able to go and for instance a lot of people use
00:47:09 go and for instance a lot of people use

00:47:09 go and for instance a lot of people use proxy servers in order to protect
00:47:12 proxy servers in order to protect

00:47:12 proxy servers in order to protect information that users are you know
00:47:16 information that users are you know

00:47:16 information that users are you know clicking on things but what happens is
00:47:19 clicking on things but what happens is

00:47:19 clicking on things but what happens is it goes out and it can go out around the
00:47:22 it goes out and it can go out around the

00:47:22 it goes out and it can go out around the world well where do hackers hide their
00:47:25 world well where do hackers hide their

00:47:25 world well where do hackers hide their yes they are in the United States
00:47:27 yes they are in the United States

00:47:27 yes they are in the United States they're in other locations but they work
00:47:30 they're in other locations but they work

00:47:30 they're in other locations but they work with impunity when they are beyond the
00:47:33 with impunity when they are beyond the

00:47:33 with impunity when they are beyond the border when they are beyond the rule of
00:47:36 border when they are beyond the rule of

00:47:36 border when they are beyond the rule of law and so what we try to do is lower
00:47:39 law and so what we try to do is lower

00:47:39 law and so what we try to do is lower your risk to those Deep Web people
00:47:43 your risk to those Deep Web people

00:47:43 your risk to those Deep Web people beyond the rule of law from simply just
00:47:45 beyond the rule of law from simply just

00:47:45 beyond the rule of law from simply just donning a little tool that they
00:47:48 donning a little tool that they

00:47:48 donning a little tool that they downloaded that has the NSA toolkit or
00:47:51 downloaded that has the NSA toolkit or

00:47:51 downloaded that has the NSA toolkit or the CIA toolkit on it and they just
00:47:53 the CIA toolkit on it and they just

00:47:53 the CIA toolkit on it and they just start pummeling
00:47:55 start pummeling

00:47:55 start pummeling your devices when you've lowered your
00:47:57 your devices when you've lowered your

00:47:57 your devices when you've lowered your hop count they can't connect to you and
00:48:00 hop count they can't connect to you and

00:48:00 hop count they can't connect to you and you can't even get a login prompt in
00:48:03 you can't even get a login prompt in

00:48:03 you can't even get a login prompt in order to use trying to crack a password
00:48:06 order to use trying to crack a password

00:48:06 order to use trying to crack a password so it's really very powerful yeah so we
00:48:11 so it's really very powerful yeah so we

00:48:11 so it's really very powerful yeah so we were talking during that bottom of the
00:48:12 were talking during that bottom of the

00:48:12 were talking during that bottom of the hour break about an animation or website
00:48:15 hour break about an animation or website

00:48:15 hour break about an animation or website I know I've used a couple of analogies
00:48:16 I know I've used a couple of analogies

00:48:16 I know I've used a couple of analogies here during the program but there's an
00:48:19 here during the program but there's an

00:48:19 here during the program but there's an animated video on the hob Xero website
00:48:23 animated video on the hob Xero website

00:48:23 animated video on the hob Xero website that goes through some of this in some
00:48:25 that goes through some of this in some

00:48:25 that goes through some of this in some more detail folks wanted to go visit
00:48:26 more detail folks wanted to go visit

00:48:26 more detail folks wanted to go visit your website and check that video out
00:48:27 your website and check that video out

00:48:28 your website and check that video out where would they go Haupt zero com
00:48:30 where would they go Haupt zero com

00:48:30 where would they go Haupt zero com so bill for the kids that are in our
00:48:33 so bill for the kids that are in our

00:48:33 so bill for the kids that are in our audience a CyberPatriot we have a lot of
00:48:34 audience a CyberPatriot we have a lot of

00:48:34 audience a CyberPatriot we have a lot of folks doing that that listen out here
00:48:36 folks doing that that listen out here

00:48:36 folks doing that that listen out here but should they worry that we're gonna
00:48:38 but should they worry that we're gonna

00:48:38 but should they worry that we're gonna solve all of the cybersecurity problem
00:48:40 solve all of the cybersecurity problem

00:48:40 solve all of the cybersecurity problem before they graduate from high school I
00:48:41 before they graduate from high school I

00:48:41 before they graduate from high school I think their future is secure yeah
00:48:44 think their future is secure yeah

00:48:44 think their future is secure yeah however in the future right now
00:48:47 however in the future right now

00:48:47 however in the future right now hop zero is working on securing the
00:48:50 hop zero is working on securing the

00:48:50 hop zero is working on securing the enterprise but our technology works in
00:48:53 enterprise but our technology works in

00:48:53 enterprise but our technology works in the home as well so if you have a ot
00:48:55 the home as well so if you have a ot

00:48:55 the home as well so if you have a ot gear for instance your refrigerator your
00:48:59 gear for instance your refrigerator your

00:48:59 gear for instance your refrigerator your thermostat your Barbie doll your Dino
00:49:02 thermostat your Barbie doll your Dino

00:49:02 thermostat your Barbie doll your Dino toy they're all in your house they can
00:49:07 toy they're all in your house they can

00:49:07 toy they're all in your house they can connect into the middle of the Internet
00:49:10 connect into the middle of the Internet

00:49:10 connect into the middle of the Internet and once they do that they can have a
00:49:12 and once they do that they can have a

00:49:12 and once they do that they can have a back door back into your network by
00:49:14 back door back into your network by

00:49:14 back door back into your network by limiting the hop count of IOT gear
00:49:18 limiting the hop count of IOT gear

00:49:18 limiting the hop count of IOT gear that's commercial or whether it's home
00:49:22 that's commercial or whether it's home

00:49:22 that's commercial or whether it's home you can keep those devices inside your
00:49:26 you can keep those devices inside your

00:49:26 you can keep those devices inside your home and limit how far data travels and
00:49:30 home and limit how far data travels and

00:49:30 home and limit how far data travels and keep that data in your home thank you
00:49:33 keep that data in your home thank you

00:49:33 keep that data in your home thank you very much for joining us
00:49:34 very much for joining us

00:49:34 very much for joining us and thank you for doing your part to
00:49:36 and thank you for doing your part to

00:49:36 and thank you for doing your part to make the internet a safer place
00:49:42


00:49:42
[Music]
00:49:48


00:49:48
you