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from the dark web to your radio Dada
00:00:05 from the dark web to your radio Dada

00:00:05 from the dark web to your radio Dada you are listening to cyber talk radio on
00:00:08 you are listening to cyber talk radio on

00:00:08 you are listening to cyber talk radio on news 1200 WOAI
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welcome to cyber talk radio I'm your
00:00:16 welcome to cyber talk radio I'm your

00:00:16 welcome to cyber talk radio I'm your host Bret Pyatt a 20 year Internet
00:00:17 host Bret Pyatt a 20 year Internet

00:00:18 host Bret Pyatt a 20 year Internet security veteran I'm joined this week by
00:00:20 security veteran I'm joined this week by

00:00:20 security veteran I'm joined this week by two attorneys one that hopefully drafts
00:00:22 two attorneys one that hopefully drafts

00:00:22 two attorneys one that hopefully drafts the things to keep you out of court and
00:00:24 the things to keep you out of court and

00:00:24 the things to keep you out of court and then the second one is if things go awry
00:00:27 then the second one is if things go awry

00:00:27 then the second one is if things go awry job can help you out after you get there
00:00:30 job can help you out after you get there

00:00:30 job can help you out after you get there they will not be giving legal advice on
00:00:32 they will not be giving legal advice on

00:00:32 they will not be giving legal advice on this program so if you actually have
00:00:35 this program so if you actually have

00:00:35 this program so if you actually have your own scenario and it's similar to
00:00:37 your own scenario and it's similar to

00:00:37 your own scenario and it's similar to this we still recommend that you reach
00:00:39 this we still recommend that you reach

00:00:39 this we still recommend that you reach out to your own attorney and get legal
00:00:40 out to your own attorney and get legal

00:00:40 out to your own attorney and get legal advice directly for your scenario so
00:00:43 advice directly for your scenario so

00:00:43 advice directly for your scenario so Louis thank you for joining us this week
00:00:45 Louis thank you for joining us this week

00:00:45 Louis thank you for joining us this week and you go ahead introduce yourself and
00:00:47 and you go ahead introduce yourself and

00:00:47 and you go ahead introduce yourself and in your firm it's a pleasure Bret I'm an
00:00:51 in your firm it's a pleasure Bret I'm an

00:00:51 in your firm it's a pleasure Bret I'm an attorney with Langley Banach which is a
00:00:53 attorney with Langley Banach which is a

00:00:53 attorney with Langley Banach which is a long term San Antonio firm goes back
00:00:56 long term San Antonio firm goes back

00:00:56 long term San Antonio firm goes back many decades and depending on the day
00:00:59 many decades and depending on the day

00:00:59 many decades and depending on the day when you're counting we're one of the
00:01:01 when you're counting we're one of the

00:01:01 when you're counting we're one of the three largest firms in town we're a
00:01:04 three largest firms in town we're a

00:01:04 three largest firms in town we're a full-service firm meaning we provide
00:01:06 full-service firm meaning we provide

00:01:06 full-service firm meaning we provide corporate services employment law
00:01:09 corporate services employment law

00:01:09 corporate services employment law divorce fiduciary litigation cyber law
00:01:13 divorce fiduciary litigation cyber law

00:01:13 divorce fiduciary litigation cyber law health care and litigation as well as
00:01:18 health care and litigation as well as

00:01:18 health care and litigation as well as well as arbitration support and advisory
00:01:21 well as arbitration support and advisory

00:01:21 well as arbitration support and advisory so that's what we do as part of this I'm
00:01:24 so that's what we do as part of this I'm

00:01:24 so that's what we do as part of this I'm a corporate transactional attorney my
00:01:26 a corporate transactional attorney my

00:01:26 a corporate transactional attorney my client base is typically smaller
00:01:28 client base is typically smaller

00:01:28 client base is typically smaller medium-sized businesses across all
00:01:30 medium-sized businesses across all

00:01:30 medium-sized businesses across all sectors here in San Antonio in South
00:01:33 sectors here in San Antonio in South

00:01:33 sectors here in San Antonio in South Texas and as part of drafting a
00:01:36 Texas and as part of drafting a

00:01:36 Texas and as part of drafting a company's contracts or trying to help
00:01:39 company's contracts or trying to help

00:01:39 company's contracts or trying to help the company with its sort of governance
00:01:41 the company with its sort of governance

00:01:41 the company with its sort of governance structure I always focus increasingly
00:01:46 structure I always focus increasingly

00:01:46 structure I always focus increasingly now on what happens with the technology
00:01:48 now on what happens with the technology

00:01:48 now on what happens with the technology with the cyberspace that is being
00:01:50 with the cyberspace that is being

00:01:50 with the cyberspace that is being utilized usually as an ancillary tool to
00:01:54 utilized usually as an ancillary tool to

00:01:54 utilized usually as an ancillary tool to doing business so I assist clients with
00:01:56 doing business so I assist clients with

00:01:56 doing business so I assist clients with their contract with their digital
00:01:58 their contract with their digital

00:01:58 their contract with their digital vendors with their web hosting company
00:02:02 vendors with their web hosting company

00:02:02 vendors with their web hosting company their service companies in terms of
00:02:06 their service companies in terms of

00:02:06 their service companies in terms of software service and all that good stuff
00:02:11 software service and all that good stuff

00:02:11 software service and all that good stuff my name is Joe Jack's and I do general
00:02:14 my name is Joe Jack's and I do general

00:02:14 my name is Joe Jack's and I do general civil litigation ranging from trust in
00:02:16 civil litigation ranging from trust in

00:02:16 civil litigation ranging from trust in estate litigation all the way to areas
00:02:19 estate litigation all the way to areas

00:02:19 estate litigation all the way to areas where Cyprus Securities played a role
00:02:20 where Cyprus Securities played a role

00:02:20 where Cyprus Securities played a role today I'll give two examples of real
00:02:23 today I'll give two examples of real

00:02:23 today I'll give two examples of real estate deals where hackers have come in
00:02:25 estate deals where hackers have come in

00:02:25 estate deals where hackers have come in at the last minute and stolen the money
00:02:28 at the last minute and stolen the money

00:02:28 at the last minute and stolen the money there's supposed to be changing hands
00:02:29 there's supposed to be changing hands

00:02:29 there's supposed to be changing hands between buyer and seller and the obvious
00:02:32 between buyer and seller and the obvious

00:02:32 between buyer and seller and the obvious problems that arise when that happens
00:02:33 problems that arise when that happens

00:02:33 problems that arise when that happens yeah 20% of the money which is usually
00:02:36 yeah 20% of the money which is usually

00:02:36 yeah 20% of the money which is usually that that closing about disappears in a
00:02:39 that that closing about disappears in a

00:02:39 that that closing about disappears in a real estate deal those deals go sideways
00:02:41 real estate deal those deals go sideways

00:02:41 real estate deal those deals go sideways pretty quickly so if you want to hear
00:02:43 pretty quickly so if you want to hear

00:02:43 pretty quickly so if you want to hear some more of the details in those
00:02:45 some more of the details in those

00:02:45 some more of the details in those examples stay tuned with us if you're
00:02:46 examples stay tuned with us if you're

00:02:46 examples stay tuned with us if you're not gonna be able to keep listening on
00:02:48 not gonna be able to keep listening on

00:02:48 not gonna be able to keep listening on 1200 waa right now we go up on our
00:02:52 1200 waa right now we go up on our

00:02:52 1200 waa right now we go up on our website at wwlp.com and the Tuesday
00:02:56 website at wwlp.com and the Tuesday

00:02:56 website at wwlp.com and the Tuesday following the broadcast this will be up
00:02:58 following the broadcast this will be up

00:02:58 following the broadcast this will be up on June 19th you'll be able to find this
00:03:00 on June 19th you'll be able to find this

00:03:00 on June 19th you'll be able to find this there if you also if you have an iTunes
00:03:02 there if you also if you have an iTunes

00:03:02 there if you also if you have an iTunes podcast or pocket cast on an Android
00:03:04 podcast or pocket cast on an Android

00:03:04 podcast or pocket cast on an Android device you could listen to the replay on
00:03:06 device you could listen to the replay on

00:03:06 device you could listen to the replay on those if you would love to see a still
00:03:08 those if you would love to see a still

00:03:08 those if you would love to see a still photo of the three of us you can check
00:03:09 photo of the three of us you can check

00:03:09 photo of the three of us you can check out our YouTube channel some folks have
00:03:11 out our YouTube channel some folks have

00:03:11 out our YouTube channel some folks have asked why don't you do video and our
00:03:13 asked why don't you do video and our

00:03:13 asked why don't you do video and our producer James has a real day job as
00:03:16 producer James has a real day job as

00:03:16 producer James has a real day job as well working the cybersecurity industry
00:03:18 well working the cybersecurity industry

00:03:18 well working the cybersecurity industry and editing audio is one thing editing
00:03:20 and editing audio is one thing editing

00:03:20 and editing audio is one thing editing video is a whole nother level of
00:03:23 video is a whole nother level of

00:03:23 video is a whole nother level of production difficulty Louis so in the
00:03:26 production difficulty Louis so in the

00:03:26 production difficulty Louis so in the the cybersecurity world so as a small
00:03:28 the cybersecurity world so as a small

00:03:28 the cybersecurity world so as a small business owner out there I mean
00:03:29 business owner out there I mean

00:03:29 business owner out there I mean everyone's got an employee handbook so
00:03:31 everyone's got an employee handbook so

00:03:31 everyone's got an employee handbook so I'm just trying to think through some of
00:03:32 I'm just trying to think through some of

00:03:32 I'm just trying to think through some of the things that every company has how
00:03:34 the things that every company has how

00:03:34 the things that every company has how many of those folks have gone in or even
00:03:37 many of those folks have gone in or even

00:03:37 many of those folks have gone in or even or talking with you at this point about
00:03:38 or talking with you at this point about

00:03:38 or talking with you at this point about putting a some type of cybersecurity
00:03:40 putting a some type of cybersecurity

00:03:40 putting a some type of cybersecurity policy into that employee handbook well
00:03:42 policy into that employee handbook well

00:03:42 policy into that employee handbook well let's take a step back I wish every
00:03:46 let's take a step back I wish every

00:03:46 let's take a step back I wish every small business had an employee handbook
00:03:49 small business had an employee handbook

00:03:49 small business had an employee handbook because it does become very helpful when
00:03:54 because it does become very helpful when

00:03:54 because it does become very helpful when you have a governance document that sort
00:03:55 you have a governance document that sort

00:03:55 you have a governance document that sort of guides what you do and how you do
00:03:57 of guides what you do and how you do

00:03:57 of guides what you do and how you do things so that's not the case having
00:04:00 things so that's not the case having

00:04:00 things so that's not the case having said that ouch okay
00:04:02 said that ouch okay

00:04:02 said that ouch okay so this is this is the reason more
00:04:03 so this is this is the reason more

00:04:03 so this is this is the reason more people end up with Jobin sometimes they
00:04:05 people end up with Jobin sometimes they

00:04:05 people end up with Jobin sometimes they don't have a handbook maybe have a
00:04:06 don't have a handbook maybe have a

00:04:06 don't have a handbook maybe have a dispute between an employee and the
00:04:08 dispute between an employee and the

00:04:08 dispute between an employee and the company or the company and an employee
00:04:10 company or the company and an employee

00:04:10 company or the company and an employee yeah okay yes so however especially
00:04:18 yeah okay yes so however especially

00:04:18 yeah okay yes so however especially recently we've seen people knocking on
00:04:20 recently we've seen people knocking on

00:04:20 recently we've seen people knocking on the door that do have some type of
00:04:22 the door that do have some type of

00:04:22 the door that do have some type of employee handbook
00:04:25 employee handbook

00:04:25 employee handbook saying well what do we do about cyber
00:04:27 saying well what do we do about cyber

00:04:27 saying well what do we do about cyber and and and this is really coming up
00:04:32 and and and this is really coming up

00:04:32 and and and this is really coming up because there are increasing pressures
00:04:36 because there are increasing pressures

00:04:36 because there are increasing pressures on small businesses to concern
00:04:39 on small businesses to concern

00:04:39 on small businesses to concern themselves about the cyberspace and the
00:04:41 themselves about the cyberspace and the

00:04:41 themselves about the cyberspace and the regulations in that space mean truces
00:04:46 regulations in that space mean truces

00:04:46 regulations in that space mean truces not only big businesses get hacked
00:04:48 not only big businesses get hacked

00:04:48 not only big businesses get hacked they're not exposed to cyber security
00:04:51 they're not exposed to cyber security

00:04:51 they're not exposed to cyber security issues alone small and medium-sized
00:04:54 issues alone small and medium-sized

00:04:54 issues alone small and medium-sized businesses are increasingly exposed to
00:04:58 businesses are increasingly exposed to

00:04:58 businesses are increasingly exposed to to the dangers of cyberspace that really
00:05:01 to the dangers of cyberspace that really

00:05:01 to the dangers of cyberspace that really have an impact on their bottom line and
00:05:02 have an impact on their bottom line and

00:05:02 have an impact on their bottom line and a lot of businesses still believe ok we
00:05:07 a lot of businesses still believe ok we

00:05:07 a lot of businesses still believe ok we have an IT guy he's monitoring this
00:05:10 have an IT guy he's monitoring this

00:05:10 have an IT guy he's monitoring this that's not your entire cyber defense
00:05:14 that's not your entire cyber defense

00:05:14 that's not your entire cyber defense line you're you you know your firewall
00:05:16 line you're you you know your firewall

00:05:16 line you're you you know your firewall is not where it stops you got people and
00:05:19 is not where it stops you got people and

00:05:19 is not where it stops you got people and I think we are in a different age and
00:05:22 I think we are in a different age and

00:05:22 I think we are in a different age and people are really the frontline that are
00:05:26 people are really the frontline that are

00:05:26 people are really the frontline that are being attacked right now
00:05:28 being attacked right now

00:05:28 being attacked right now through these hackers on the internet
00:05:31 through these hackers on the internet

00:05:31 through these hackers on the internet through fishing spear phishing spoofing
00:05:33 through fishing spear phishing spoofing

00:05:33 through fishing spear phishing spoofing what what have you and so training
00:05:37 what what have you and so training

00:05:37 what what have you and so training people be it in small or medium sized
00:05:40 people be it in small or medium sized

00:05:40 people be it in small or medium sized companies or large companies has become
00:05:42 companies or large companies has become

00:05:42 companies or large companies has become increasingly more important so how do
00:05:45 increasingly more important so how do

00:05:45 increasingly more important so how do you do that I mean you you train people
00:05:48 you do that I mean you you train people

00:05:48 you do that I mean you you train people you bring folks in you know and some
00:05:51 you bring folks in you know and some

00:05:51 you bring folks in you know and some people they have budget issues you got
00:05:53 people they have budget issues you got

00:05:53 people they have budget issues you got to think about budget you know they
00:05:54 to think about budget you know they

00:05:54 to think about budget you know they can't have a big compliance officer
00:05:57 can't have a big compliance officer

00:05:57 can't have a big compliance officer sitting there handling this it's simply
00:06:00 sitting there handling this it's simply

00:06:00 sitting there handling this it's simply not affordable to in the bottom line so
00:06:02 not affordable to in the bottom line so

00:06:02 not affordable to in the bottom line so so what happens you can you know you can
00:06:05 so what happens you can you know you can

00:06:05 so what happens you can you know you can reach out to folks you can reach out to
00:06:06 reach out to folks you can reach out to

00:06:06 reach out to folks you can reach out to your platform providers your cloud
00:06:09 your platform providers your cloud

00:06:09 your platform providers your cloud providers your service providers they
00:06:11 providers your service providers they

00:06:11 providers your service providers they may have some basic guidance you can go
00:06:13 may have some basic guidance you can go

00:06:13 may have some basic guidance you can go by you can check check with an attorney
00:06:16 by you can check check with an attorney

00:06:16 by you can check check with an attorney you can check with your industry
00:06:18 you can check with your industry

00:06:18 you can check with your industry organizations so there are examples of
00:06:21 organizations so there are examples of

00:06:21 organizations so there are examples of policies out there that provide a
00:06:23 policies out there that provide a

00:06:23 policies out there that provide a starting point for you to to look at
00:06:26 starting point for you to to look at

00:06:26 starting point for you to to look at every policy turns on a number of items
00:06:32 every policy turns on a number of items

00:06:32 every policy turns on a number of items and inputs one of them is your
00:06:34 and inputs one of them is your

00:06:34 and inputs one of them is your regulatory framework are you governed by
00:06:37 regulatory framework are you governed by

00:06:37 regulatory framework are you governed by a specific
00:06:37 a specific

00:06:37 a specific regulatory framework in your industry or
00:06:40 regulatory framework in your industry or

00:06:40 regulatory framework in your industry or not or does just the general law of
00:06:41 not or does just the general law of

00:06:41 not or does just the general law of Texas apply to your business so that's
00:06:44 Texas apply to your business so that's

00:06:44 Texas apply to your business so that's one starting point second is what kind
00:06:47 one starting point second is what kind

00:06:47 one starting point second is what kind of cyberspace stuff do you use I mean
00:06:50 of cyberspace stuff do you use I mean

00:06:50 of cyberspace stuff do you use I mean what you use in your processes what are
00:06:52 what you use in your processes what are

00:06:52 what you use in your processes what are your data inputs how does it come in how
00:06:55 your data inputs how does it come in how

00:06:55 your data inputs how does it come in how does it go out how do you collect it
00:06:57 does it go out how do you collect it

00:06:57 does it go out how do you collect it what you collect for what purpose for
00:06:58 what you collect for what purpose for

00:06:58 what you collect for what purpose for how long sort of a little inventory so
00:07:00 how long sort of a little inventory so

00:07:00 how long sort of a little inventory so really the stuff is is is very specific
00:07:05 really the stuff is is is very specific

00:07:05 really the stuff is is is very specific to to a situation that doesn't mean it
00:07:07 to to a situation that doesn't mean it

00:07:07 to to a situation that doesn't mean it has to be costly you can have a basic
00:07:10 has to be costly you can have a basic

00:07:10 has to be costly you can have a basic fundamental policy put together and if
00:07:13 fundamental policy put together and if

00:07:13 fundamental policy put together and if you have a website and outward-facing as
00:07:15 you have a website and outward-facing as

00:07:15 you have a website and outward-facing as part of your outward facing business you
00:07:17 part of your outward facing business you

00:07:17 part of your outward facing business you want a policy or notice on your website
00:07:19 want a policy or notice on your website

00:07:19 want a policy or notice on your website as well so I think people are waking up
00:07:23 as well so I think people are waking up

00:07:23 as well so I think people are waking up to it because because really what we've
00:07:26 to it because because really what we've

00:07:26 to it because because really what we've seen in Europe over the past week on
00:07:28 seen in Europe over the past week on

00:07:28 seen in Europe over the past week on last Friday was 25th no it was over a
00:07:31 last Friday was 25th no it was over a

00:07:31 last Friday was 25th no it was over a week ago now the general data privacy
00:07:35 week ago now the general data privacy

00:07:35 week ago now the general data privacy regulations in Europe came into effect
00:07:37 regulations in Europe came into effect

00:07:37 regulations in Europe came into effect and all of a sudden like within the week
00:07:40 and all of a sudden like within the week

00:07:40 and all of a sudden like within the week last week we saw people knocking on our
00:07:42 last week we saw people knocking on our

00:07:42 last week we saw people knocking on our door and saying oh my gosh my vendors
00:07:44 door and saying oh my gosh my vendors

00:07:44 door and saying oh my gosh my vendors the people I do business with some of
00:07:46 the people I do business with some of

00:07:46 the people I do business with some of them on the East Coast some of them are
00:07:48 them on the East Coast some of them are

00:07:48 them on the East Coast some of them are in Europe what do we do you know they're
00:07:52 in Europe what do we do you know they're

00:07:52 in Europe what do we do you know they're pushing rules on me so what do I need to
00:07:54 pushing rules on me so what do I need to

00:07:54 pushing rules on me so what do I need to comply with
00:07:55 comply with

00:07:55 comply with yeah and it's an interesting one where
00:07:57 yeah and it's an interesting one where

00:07:57 yeah and it's an interesting one where Europe has gone at the the full EU level
00:08:02 Europe has gone at the the full EU level

00:08:02 Europe has gone at the the full EU level here in the US there's data privacy laws
00:08:05 here in the US there's data privacy laws

00:08:05 here in the US there's data privacy laws and for consumer in almost every state
00:08:08 and for consumer in almost every state

00:08:08 and for consumer in almost every state now and the federal regulatory framework
00:08:12 now and the federal regulatory framework

00:08:12 now and the federal regulatory framework is a business guy in the US it's pretty
00:08:14 is a business guy in the US it's pretty

00:08:14 is a business guy in the US it's pretty loose pretty weak most of these states
00:08:16 loose pretty weak most of these states

00:08:16 loose pretty weak most of these states California Massachusetts and a handful
00:08:18 California Massachusetts and a handful

00:08:18 California Massachusetts and a handful have much more strict and clear
00:08:22 have much more strict and clear

00:08:22 have much more strict and clear disclosure requirements and and other
00:08:24 disclosure requirements and and other

00:08:24 disclosure requirements and and other things and so this is one that I've seen
00:08:27 things and so this is one that I've seen

00:08:27 things and so this is one that I've seen it's been interesting for me that
00:08:29 it's been interesting for me that

00:08:29 it's been interesting for me that there's all this action now around gdpr
00:08:33 there's all this action now around gdpr

00:08:33 there's all this action now around gdpr where many of these things you should
00:08:34 where many of these things you should

00:08:34 where many of these things you should have been doing this already some folks
00:08:36 have been doing this already some folks

00:08:36 have been doing this already some folks asked for my business my day job they're
00:08:39 asked for my business my day job they're

00:08:39 asked for my business my day job they're like well how are you gonna be able to
00:08:41 like well how are you gonna be able to

00:08:41 like well how are you gonna be able to deal with the 72 hour disclosure
00:08:43 deal with the 72 hour disclosure

00:08:43 deal with the 72 hour disclosure guideline requirement in gdpr and I was
00:08:45 guideline requirement in gdpr and I was

00:08:45 guideline requirement in gdpr and I was like I think I already have something
00:08:46 like I think I already have something

00:08:46 like I think I already have something roughly in the 72 hours from California
00:08:49 roughly in the 72 hours from California

00:08:49 roughly in the 72 hours from California so we're already set up in the event
00:08:51 so we're already set up in the event

00:08:51 so we're already set up in the event something terrible happened to us that
00:08:53 something terrible happened to us that

00:08:53 something terrible happened to us that we would be able to get out and make
00:08:55 we would be able to get out and make

00:08:55 we would be able to get out and make those disclosures in a timely manner
00:08:57 those disclosures in a timely manner

00:08:57 those disclosures in a timely manner already so I'm glad to see that this is
00:08:59 already so I'm glad to see that this is

00:08:59 already so I'm glad to see that this is raising the visibility and it was a song
00:09:01 raising the visibility and it was a song

00:09:01 raising the visibility and it was a song on Twitter here recently like the LA
00:09:03 on Twitter here recently like the LA

00:09:03 on Twitter here recently like the LA Times is just blocking all customers
00:09:06 Times is just blocking all customers

00:09:06 Times is just blocking all customers from Europe and I'm sure the LA Times
00:09:07 from Europe and I'm sure the LA Times

00:09:07 from Europe and I'm sure the LA Times has subscribers from Europe right now
00:09:09 has subscribers from Europe right now

00:09:09 has subscribers from Europe right now but this is the way they've decided to
00:09:10 but this is the way they've decided to

00:09:10 but this is the way they've decided to handle gdpr
00:09:11 handle gdpr

00:09:11 handle gdpr and they're in California so whatever
00:09:12 and they're in California so whatever

00:09:12 and they're in California so whatever they were doing in California already
00:09:14 they were doing in California already

00:09:14 they were doing in California already probably gets them pretty close if not
00:09:17 probably gets them pretty close if not

00:09:17 probably gets them pretty close if not exactly to where they need to be but
00:09:19 exactly to where they need to be but

00:09:19 exactly to where they need to be but maybe the some of their advertising
00:09:19 maybe the some of their advertising

00:09:20 maybe the some of their advertising networks or other things as you talked
00:09:21 networks or other things as you talked

00:09:21 networks or other things as you talked about suppliers and sub-process there's
00:09:23 about suppliers and sub-process there's

00:09:23 about suppliers and sub-process there's may be some of their advertising
00:09:24 may be some of their advertising

00:09:24 may be some of their advertising networks that they use are not compliant
00:09:27 networks that they use are not compliant

00:09:27 networks that they use are not compliant I'm hypothetically guessing here I'm not
00:09:28 I'm hypothetically guessing here I'm not

00:09:28 I'm hypothetically guessing here I'm not sure why the LA Times is blocking Europe
00:09:31 sure why the LA Times is blocking Europe

00:09:32 sure why the LA Times is blocking Europe if they would like to comment we would
00:09:33 if they would like to comment we would

00:09:33 if they would like to comment we would be happy to correct this and have them
00:09:35 be happy to correct this and have them

00:09:35 be happy to correct this and have them in here but I find that one is
00:09:38 in here but I find that one is

00:09:38 in here but I find that one is interesting so you're talking on the
00:09:39 interesting so you're talking on the

00:09:39 interesting so you're talking on the security awareness training so like in
00:09:41 security awareness training so like in

00:09:41 security awareness training so like in the healthcare industry
00:09:43 the healthcare industry

00:09:43 the healthcare industry everyone's supposed to be doing this I
00:09:45 everyone's supposed to be doing this I

00:09:45 everyone's supposed to be doing this I would say that I'm maybe everyone's
00:09:47 would say that I'm maybe everyone's

00:09:47 would say that I'm maybe everyone's signing a forum once a year or once
00:09:49 signing a forum once a year or once

00:09:49 signing a forum once a year or once every couple of years or when you get
00:09:50 every couple of years or when you get

00:09:50 every couple of years or when you get hired but I'm not sure how often it's
00:09:53 hired but I'm not sure how often it's

00:09:53 hired but I'm not sure how often it's really regular and comprehensive across
00:09:55 really regular and comprehensive across

00:09:55 really regular and comprehensive across the the healthcare industry these days
00:09:56 the the healthcare industry these days

00:09:56 the the healthcare industry these days even though where it should be so
00:09:58 even though where it should be so

00:09:58 even though where it should be so healthcare is interesting in Texas
00:10:01 healthcare is interesting in Texas

00:10:01 healthcare is interesting in Texas because we've had very stiff regulations
00:10:04 because we've had very stiff regulations

00:10:04 because we've had very stiff regulations at some point stiffer than the federal
00:10:06 at some point stiffer than the federal

00:10:06 at some point stiffer than the federal HIPPA regulations for the past five
00:10:08 HIPPA regulations for the past five

00:10:08 HIPPA regulations for the past five years House bill 303 comprehensive and
00:10:14 years House bill 303 comprehensive and

00:10:14 years House bill 303 comprehensive and strict regulatory regime in place and
00:10:17 strict regulatory regime in place and

00:10:17 strict regulatory regime in place and your relationship with your service
00:10:20 your relationship with your service

00:10:20 your relationship with your service providers with your processes your data
00:10:22 providers with your processes your data

00:10:22 providers with your processes your data processes are regulated and you know
00:10:23 processes are regulated and you know

00:10:23 processes are regulated and you know that because in your day job I looked at
00:10:26 that because in your day job I looked at

00:10:26 that because in your day job I looked at your daytime employer and and and that
00:10:29 your daytime employer and and and that

00:10:29 your daytime employer and and and that daytime employer of yours does have real
00:10:33 daytime employer of yours does have real

00:10:33 daytime employer of yours does have real responsiveness to those requirements you
00:10:35 responsiveness to those requirements you

00:10:35 responsiveness to those requirements you have a business associate agreement for
00:10:38 have a business associate agreement for

00:10:38 have a business associate agreement for a processor in place there that anybody
00:10:39 a processor in place there that anybody

00:10:39 a processor in place there that anybody can look on to the extent they need your
00:10:42 can look on to the extent they need your

00:10:42 can look on to the extent they need your services and they need to process
00:10:45 services and they need to process

00:10:45 services and they need to process healthcare data so healthcare data is
00:10:47 healthcare data so healthcare data is

00:10:47 healthcare data so healthcare data is sort of at the front end but I mean
00:10:49 sort of at the front end but I mean

00:10:49 sort of at the front end but I mean we're looking at disparate regulatory
00:10:52 we're looking at disparate regulatory

00:10:52 we're looking at disparate regulatory regimes right the regulatory framework
00:10:54 regimes right the regulatory framework

00:10:54 regimes right the regulatory framework in the United States I mean we have over
00:10:57 in the United States I mean we have over

00:10:57 in the United States I mean we have over a dozen regulators plus this at the
00:10:59 a dozen regulators plus this at the

00:10:59 a dozen regulators plus this at the federal level yeah no at the state level
00:11:03 federal level yeah no at the state level

00:11:03 federal level yeah no at the state level we have the Attorney General's
00:11:04 we have the Attorney General's

00:11:04 we have the Attorney General's and again we have sectoral laws what we
00:11:08 and again we have sectoral laws what we

00:11:08 and again we have sectoral laws what we can see for sure is in Texas we have a
00:11:10 can see for sure is in Texas we have a

00:11:10 can see for sure is in Texas we have a data breach notification requirement all
00:11:13 data breach notification requirement all

00:11:13 data breach notification requirement all right we have a law so that we do have
00:11:15 right we have a law so that we do have

00:11:15 right we have a law so that we do have we're not as advanced to some other
00:11:16 we're not as advanced to some other

00:11:16 we're not as advanced to some other states like you mentioned you mentioned
00:11:18 states like you mentioned you mentioned

00:11:18 states like you mentioned you mentioned the west coast and the East Coast if
00:11:20 the west coast and the East Coast if

00:11:20 the west coast and the East Coast if you're in the financial sector or the
00:11:23 you're in the financial sector or the

00:11:23 you're in the financial sector or the insurance sector New York has a very
00:11:26 insurance sector New York has a very

00:11:26 insurance sector New York has a very strict cyberspace law and if you are
00:11:29 strict cyberspace law and if you are

00:11:29 strict cyberspace law and if you are doing business with an entity in the
00:11:33 doing business with an entity in the

00:11:33 doing business with an entity in the financial sector or in the insurance
00:11:35 financial sector or in the insurance

00:11:35 financial sector or in the insurance sector that is governed by New York law
00:11:39 sector that is governed by New York law

00:11:39 sector that is governed by New York law then certain requirements for having
00:11:42 then certain requirements for having

00:11:42 then certain requirements for having policies like you say in place that are
00:11:45 policies like you say in place that are

00:11:45 policies like you say in place that are employee policies as well as policies
00:11:47 employee policies as well as policies

00:11:47 employee policies as well as policies government governing your institution
00:11:49 government governing your institution

00:11:49 government governing your institution are going to be pushed down to you yeah
00:11:52 are going to be pushed down to you yeah

00:11:52 are going to be pushed down to you yeah so as a small business and they think
00:11:56 so as a small business and they think

00:11:56 so as a small business and they think you know what I'm only in Texas but and
00:11:59 you know what I'm only in Texas but and

00:11:59 you know what I'm only in Texas but and so I don't really I just need to pay
00:12:01 so I don't really I just need to pay

00:12:01 so I don't really I just need to pay attention to Texas laws but if you have
00:12:03 attention to Texas laws but if you have

00:12:03 attention to Texas laws but if you have customers that are in other states or
00:12:05 customers that are in other states or

00:12:05 customers that are in other states or customers that are other country I mean
00:12:06 customers that are other country I mean

00:12:06 customers that are other country I mean I'm and most it to me at least feels
00:12:09 I'm and most it to me at least feels

00:12:09 I'm and most it to me at least feels like unless you're of super local
00:12:11 like unless you're of super local

00:12:11 like unless you're of super local business you have some customers that
00:12:13 business you have some customers that

00:12:13 business you have some customers that are either in doing business in other
00:12:16 are either in doing business in other

00:12:16 are either in doing business in other states primarily or those customers have
00:12:18 states primarily or those customers have

00:12:18 states primarily or those customers have employees in another state which may
00:12:20 employees in another state which may

00:12:20 employees in another state which may fall under those laws because of it's
00:12:22 fall under those laws because of it's

00:12:22 fall under those laws because of it's just sort of like some of this with the
00:12:24 just sort of like some of this with the

00:12:24 just sort of like some of this with the gdpr
00:12:25 gdpr

00:12:25 gdpr and how are how are those the small
00:12:29 and how are how are those the small

00:12:29 and how are how are those the small businesses going through to think about
00:12:31 businesses going through to think about

00:12:31 businesses going through to think about looking at these from I mean I don't
00:12:34 looking at these from I mean I don't

00:12:34 looking at these from I mean I don't even see a lot of small businesses
00:12:35 even see a lot of small businesses

00:12:35 even see a lot of small businesses getting an IT audit done I agree with
00:12:38 getting an IT audit done I agree with

00:12:38 getting an IT audit done I agree with you on that I mean an IT audit just a
00:12:41 you on that I mean an IT audit just a

00:12:41 you on that I mean an IT audit just a sort of an overview a sort of an
00:12:43 sort of an overview a sort of an

00:12:43 sort of an overview a sort of an inventory even of what your IT process
00:12:47 inventory even of what your IT process

00:12:47 inventory even of what your IT process would be would be valuable I think
00:12:49 would be would be valuable I think

00:12:49 would be would be valuable I think you're going to every business is going
00:12:52 you're going to every business is going

00:12:52 you're going to every business is going to have to start looking at it whether
00:12:54 to have to start looking at it whether

00:12:54 to have to start looking at it whether it's you know whether it's reasonable
00:12:56 it's you know whether it's reasonable

00:12:56 it's you know whether it's reasonable right now it's going to be reasonable
00:12:57 right now it's going to be reasonable

00:12:57 right now it's going to be reasonable two or three years from now for
00:12:58 two or three years from now for

00:12:58 two or three years from now for everybody if you are using the internet
00:13:01 everybody if you are using the internet

00:13:01 everybody if you are using the internet or you using a web portal or whatever it
00:13:04 or you using a web portal or whatever it

00:13:04 or you using a web portal or whatever it is you're doing on the internet platform
00:13:06 is you're doing on the internet platform

00:13:06 is you're doing on the internet platform in cyberspace you're using that to do
00:13:08 in cyberspace you're using that to do

00:13:08 in cyberspace you're using that to do business and you're processing data and
00:13:10 business and you're processing data and

00:13:10 business and you're processing data and you're having vendors sit in different
00:13:12 you're having vendors sit in different

00:13:12 you're having vendors sit in different states or you having your servers that
00:13:15 states or you having your servers that

00:13:15 states or you having your servers that you access sitting in different states
00:13:16 you access sitting in different states

00:13:16 you access sitting in different states and jurisdictions you
00:13:17 and jurisdictions you

00:13:17 and jurisdictions you have varied customer base across the
00:13:19 have varied customer base across the

00:13:19 have varied customer base across the country you're going to have to look at
00:13:22 country you're going to have to look at

00:13:22 country you're going to have to look at the state specific regulations and
00:13:25 the state specific regulations and

00:13:25 the state specific regulations and you're gonna need some help I mean you
00:13:26 you're gonna need some help I mean you

00:13:26 you're gonna need some help I mean you can do some of that yourself because you
00:13:28 can do some of that yourself because you

00:13:28 can do some of that yourself because you know you can just google those laws
00:13:30 know you can just google those laws

00:13:30 know you can just google those laws right now there are there only a handful
00:13:33 right now there are there only a handful

00:13:33 right now there are there only a handful here in between the west and the East
00:13:34 here in between the west and the East

00:13:34 here in between the west and the East Coast most of them related to data
00:13:36 Coast most of them related to data

00:13:36 Coast most of them related to data breach but they are developing but what
00:13:40 breach but they are developing but what

00:13:40 breach but they are developing but what we're seeing really is a creep though
00:13:42 we're seeing really is a creep though

00:13:42 we're seeing really is a creep though which I think people didn't expect and
00:13:44 which I think people didn't expect and

00:13:44 which I think people didn't expect and you were referencing that earlier Brett
00:13:46 you were referencing that earlier Brett

00:13:46 you were referencing that earlier Brett is this whole gdpr knock-on effect now I
00:13:50 is this whole gdpr knock-on effect now I

00:13:50 is this whole gdpr knock-on effect now I sign up to a lot of websites guess what
00:13:53 sign up to a lot of websites guess what

00:13:53 sign up to a lot of websites guess what I've been getting in my mailbox updated
00:13:56 I've been getting in my mailbox updated

00:13:56 I've been getting in my mailbox updated privacy policy notices including from
00:13:59 privacy policy notices including from

00:13:59 privacy policy notices including from the American Bar Association so I got
00:14:01 the American Bar Association so I got

00:14:01 the American Bar Association so I got one from them referencing specifically
00:14:05 one from them referencing specifically

00:14:05 one from them referencing specifically the gdpr and and in all essence creating
00:14:10 the gdpr and and in all essence creating

00:14:10 the gdpr and and in all essence creating a policy that's gdpr like without the
00:14:12 a policy that's gdpr like without the

00:14:12 a policy that's gdpr like without the key feature of the GD P R which is the
00:14:14 key feature of the GD P R which is the

00:14:14 key feature of the GD P R which is the affirmative opt in the affirmative
00:14:16 affirmative opt in the affirmative

00:14:17 affirmative opt in the affirmative informed consent so there is no click
00:14:19 informed consent so there is no click

00:14:19 informed consent so there is no click button now from the European websites i
00:14:22 button now from the European websites i

00:14:22 button now from the European websites i subscribe to i i've also gotten those
00:14:24 subscribe to i i've also gotten those

00:14:24 subscribe to i i've also gotten those and boy gdpr sort of has a requirement
00:14:27 and boy gdpr sort of has a requirement

00:14:27 and boy gdpr sort of has a requirement for plain english if you want it it's
00:14:30 for plain english if you want it it's

00:14:30 for plain english if you want it it's plain English coming from some of these
00:14:31 plain English coming from some of these

00:14:31 plain English coming from some of these vendors so and another interesting fact
00:14:35 vendors so and another interesting fact

00:14:35 vendors so and another interesting fact you know who has been paying attention
00:14:38 you know who has been paying attention

00:14:38 you know who has been paying attention to GDP are probably the big publicly
00:14:40 to GDP are probably the big publicly

00:14:40 to GDP are probably the big publicly traded companies right
00:14:41 traded companies right

00:14:41 traded companies right yeah the folks are them marketing and
00:14:44 yeah the folks are them marketing and

00:14:44 yeah the folks are them marketing and advertising space most in GDP are is
00:14:47 advertising space most in GDP are is

00:14:47 advertising space most in GDP are is really about individual citizen
00:14:50 really about individual citizen

00:14:50 really about individual citizen information it's not about information
00:14:52 information it's not about information

00:14:52 information it's not about information with European businesses so if you're an
00:14:55 with European businesses so if you're an

00:14:55 with European businesses so if you're an address for a business if you're
00:14:57 address for a business if you're

00:14:57 address for a business if you're collecting other information about
00:15:00 collecting other information about

00:15:00 collecting other information about businesses revenue or all things about a
00:15:01 businesses revenue or all things about a

00:15:01 businesses revenue or all things about a business that's not directly covered
00:15:03 business that's not directly covered

00:15:03 business that's not directly covered under GD P R so it's all of these big
00:15:05 under GD P R so it's all of these big

00:15:05 under GD P R so it's all of these big consumer it's the Facebook's it's the
00:15:07 consumer it's the Facebook's it's the

00:15:07 consumer it's the Facebook's it's the Google's its advertising networks its
00:15:08 Google's its advertising networks its

00:15:08 Google's its advertising networks its publishers that have individuals as
00:15:11 publishers that have individuals as

00:15:11 publishers that have individuals as subscribers and yeah I mean those are
00:15:12 subscribers and yeah I mean those are

00:15:12 subscribers and yeah I mean those are the ones that they are either prepared
00:15:15 the ones that they are either prepared

00:15:15 the ones that they are either prepared and dealing with it or some like the LA
00:15:17 and dealing with it or some like the LA

00:15:17 and dealing with it or some like the LA Times all right it was one of them
00:15:18 Times all right it was one of them

00:15:18 Times all right it was one of them newspapers in Chicago the Tribune which
00:15:20 newspapers in Chicago the Tribune which

00:15:20 newspapers in Chicago the Tribune which they might all be owned by the same
00:15:21 they might all be owned by the same

00:15:21 they might all be owned by the same people but or blocking them as well the
00:15:24 people but or blocking them as well the

00:15:24 people but or blocking them as well the blocking the access that's that's quite
00:15:26 blocking the access that's that's quite

00:15:26 blocking the access that's that's quite quite quite amusing really yeah
00:15:29 quite quite amusing really yeah

00:15:29 quite quite amusing really yeah the one
00:15:30 the one

00:15:30 the one thing about I found was that some
00:15:33 thing about I found was that some

00:15:33 thing about I found was that some companies big companies that have
00:15:35 companies big companies that have

00:15:35 companies big companies that have consumers that sign on directly on the
00:15:37 consumers that sign on directly on the

00:15:37 consumers that sign on directly on the website because you get discounts or
00:15:38 website because you get discounts or

00:15:38 website because you get discounts or whatever it is you know who did I see
00:15:41 whatever it is you know who did I see

00:15:41 whatever it is you know who did I see ugh
00:15:42 ugh

00:15:42 ugh you know the Australian boots with the
00:15:44 you know the Australian boots with the

00:15:44 you know the Australian boots with the sheepskin I got a privacy notice from
00:15:47 sheepskin I got a privacy notice from

00:15:47 sheepskin I got a privacy notice from them and they are wholesale signing on
00:15:50 them and they are wholesale signing on

00:15:50 them and they are wholesale signing on to GDP are they don't want the cost of
00:15:52 to GDP are they don't want the cost of

00:15:53 to GDP are they don't want the cost of implementing globally various regimes
00:15:55 implementing globally various regimes

00:15:55 implementing globally various regimes that are like respond that are
00:15:58 that are like respond that are

00:15:58 that are like respond that are responsive for example to Australia in
00:16:00 responsive for example to Australia in

00:16:00 responsive for example to Australia in one place the responsive to Europe and
00:16:02 one place the responsive to Europe and

00:16:02 one place the responsive to Europe and another in the US they're like yeah what
00:16:05 another in the US they're like yeah what

00:16:05 another in the US they're like yeah what the heck you know they are let's just
00:16:07 the heck you know they are let's just

00:16:07 the heck you know they are let's just have one global policy if we're gonna
00:16:10 have one global policy if we're gonna

00:16:10 have one global policy if we're gonna have to comply with GDP are let's comply
00:16:12 have to comply with GDP are let's comply

00:16:12 have to comply with GDP are let's comply with GDP are worldwide and so that's
00:16:13 with GDP are worldwide and so that's

00:16:13 with GDP are worldwide and so that's what they're doing so that's what I'm
00:16:15 what they're doing so that's what I'm

00:16:15 what they're doing so that's what I'm saying I think we're seeing a creep and
00:16:16 saying I think we're seeing a creep and

00:16:16 saying I think we're seeing a creep and again you are absolutely right Brett
00:16:18 again you are absolutely right Brett

00:16:18 again you are absolutely right Brett when we're talking about data protection
00:16:20 when we're talking about data protection

00:16:20 when we're talking about data protection we're talking about individual rights
00:16:21 we're talking about individual rights

00:16:21 we're talking about individual rights and individuals data in Europe when
00:16:23 and individuals data in Europe when

00:16:23 and individuals data in Europe when you're a data subject you're a human
00:16:25 you're a data subject you're a human

00:16:25 you're a data subject you're a human being under European law so yeah
00:16:28 being under European law so yeah

00:16:28 being under European law so yeah absolutely correct as where we're going
00:16:30 absolutely correct as where we're going

00:16:30 absolutely correct as where we're going through on the the data privacy piece so
00:16:33 through on the the data privacy piece so

00:16:33 through on the the data privacy piece so you have that from one on the
00:16:35 you have that from one on the

00:16:35 you have that from one on the cybersecurity side but so I mean almost
00:16:37 cybersecurity side but so I mean almost

00:16:37 cybersecurity side but so I mean almost every business now is on the Internet
00:16:39 every business now is on the Internet

00:16:39 every business now is on the Internet you're doing things let's say you're
00:16:41 you're doing things let's say you're

00:16:41 you're doing things let's say you're doing everything correctly but one of
00:16:42 doing everything correctly but one of

00:16:42 doing everything correctly but one of your service providers gets hacked and
00:16:45 your service providers gets hacked and

00:16:45 your service providers gets hacked and now they've sent you the breach notice
00:16:47 now they've sent you the breach notice

00:16:47 now they've sent you the breach notice let's hope that that service providers
00:16:49 let's hope that that service providers

00:16:49 let's hope that that service providers got something in place so now you're a
00:16:51 got something in place so now you're a

00:16:51 got something in place so now you're a small business and you're on the
00:16:53 small business and you're on the

00:16:53 small business and you're on the receiving end maybe this is a someone
00:16:55 receiving end maybe this is a someone

00:16:55 receiving end maybe this is a someone who runs an online database for you
00:16:57 who runs an online database for you

00:16:57 who runs an online database for you you're storing customer records in it
00:16:59 you're storing customer records in it

00:16:59 you're storing customer records in it and they just sent you a notice that
00:17:00 and they just sent you a notice that

00:17:00 and they just sent you a notice that says hey we've been breached some of
00:17:02 says hey we've been breached some of

00:17:02 says hey we've been breached some of your records may be exposed so it it
00:17:06 your records may be exposed so it it

00:17:06 your records may be exposed so it it advice for the small business on the the
00:17:08 advice for the small business on the the

00:17:08 advice for the small business on the the downstream effect of this you just got
00:17:10 downstream effect of this you just got

00:17:10 downstream effect of this you just got one of these it's kind of shocking it
00:17:11 one of these it's kind of shocking it

00:17:11 one of these it's kind of shocking it might also be it might be more shocking
00:17:13 might also be it might be more shocking

00:17:13 might also be it might be more shocking than getting a served for a notice for
00:17:15 than getting a served for a notice for

00:17:15 than getting a served for a notice for lawsuit because it's like the lawsuit I
00:17:17 lawsuit because it's like the lawsuit I

00:17:17 lawsuit because it's like the lawsuit I know what to do I call an attorney and
00:17:18 know what to do I call an attorney and

00:17:18 know what to do I call an attorney and I'll figure out how to deal with that on
00:17:20 I'll figure out how to deal with that on

00:17:20 I'll figure out how to deal with that on a court but here now you've you've been
00:17:22 a court but here now you've you've been

00:17:22 a court but here now you've you've been given this data breach noticed one of
00:17:24 given this data breach noticed one of

00:17:24 given this data breach noticed one of your service providers and you're in
00:17:25 your service providers and you're in

00:17:25 your service providers and you're in kind of this limbo land unless you've
00:17:27 kind of this limbo land unless you've

00:17:27 kind of this limbo land unless you've thought thought about it ahead of time I
00:17:29 thought thought about it ahead of time I

00:17:29 thought thought about it ahead of time I think one of the things is you got to
00:17:31 think one of the things is you got to

00:17:31 think one of the things is you got to get your team in place that's why you
00:17:34 get your team in place that's why you

00:17:34 get your team in place that's why you want to plan ahead of time like you said
00:17:36 want to plan ahead of time like you said

00:17:36 want to plan ahead of time like you said you really want to be able to know how
00:17:38 you really want to be able to know how

00:17:39 you really want to be able to know how to respond when this comes in or when
00:17:41 to respond when this comes in or when

00:17:41 to respond when this comes in or when you directly figure out you've had a
00:17:44 you directly figure out you've had a

00:17:44 you directly figure out you've had a breach or
00:17:44 breach or

00:17:44 breach or somebody notifies you I mean you gotta
00:17:46 somebody notifies you I mean you gotta

00:17:46 somebody notifies you I mean you gotta circle the wagons you look at your IT
00:17:48 circle the wagons you look at your IT

00:17:48 circle the wagons you look at your IT data you look at what has been impacted
00:17:50 data you look at what has been impacted

00:17:50 data you look at what has been impacted do you see if you can work with your
00:17:51 do you see if you can work with your

00:17:51 do you see if you can work with your service provider that they can figure
00:17:53 service provider that they can figure

00:17:53 service provider that they can figure out what exactly was impact impacted and
00:17:55 out what exactly was impact impacted and

00:17:55 out what exactly was impact impacted and you're gonna have to look at the data
00:17:56 you're gonna have to look at the data

00:17:56 you're gonna have to look at the data notification laws I mean it's just gonna
00:17:58 notification laws I mean it's just gonna

00:17:58 notification laws I mean it's just gonna have to because you are gonna have to
00:18:00 have to because you are gonna have to

00:18:00 have to because you are gonna have to notify your customer more likely than
00:18:02 notify your customer more likely than

00:18:02 notify your customer more likely than not depending what jurisdiction they're
00:18:04 not depending what jurisdiction they're

00:18:04 not depending what jurisdiction they're in and which jurisdiction you're in yeah
00:18:06 in and which jurisdiction you're in yeah

00:18:06 in and which jurisdiction you're in yeah this is one of the interesting ones and
00:18:09 this is one of the interesting ones and

00:18:09 this is one of the interesting ones and we've mentioned this a few times on the
00:18:10 we've mentioned this a few times on the

00:18:10 we've mentioned this a few times on the program if you have an office and it
00:18:12 program if you have an office and it

00:18:12 program if you have an office and it physically gets broken into you call
00:18:15 physically gets broken into you call

00:18:15 physically gets broken into you call 9-1-1 you call the local police they
00:18:17 9-1-1 you call the local police they

00:18:17 9-1-1 you call the local police they come investigate it they come take care
00:18:18 come investigate it they come take care

00:18:18 come investigate it they come take care of it in this cyber world you digitally
00:18:22 of it in this cyber world you digitally

00:18:22 of it in this cyber world you digitally get broken into try calling 9-1-1 no
00:18:24 get broken into try calling 9-1-1 no

00:18:24 get broken into try calling 9-1-1 no actually please do not call 9-1-1 for a
00:18:26 actually please do not call 9-1-1 for a

00:18:26 actually please do not call 9-1-1 for a cyber attack like there is no and call
00:18:30 cyber attack like there is no and call

00:18:30 cyber attack like there is no and call local police not really the same thing
00:18:32 local police not really the same thing

00:18:32 local police not really the same thing you can call the FBI they have an
00:18:34 you can call the FBI they have an

00:18:34 you can call the FBI they have an investigation office they'll work
00:18:35 investigation office they'll work

00:18:35 investigation office they'll work through it under certain scope but if if
00:18:38 through it under certain scope but if if

00:18:38 through it under certain scope but if if you call the FBI about the fact that
00:18:39 you call the FBI about the fact that

00:18:39 you call the FBI about the fact that you've got 400 customers some of them
00:18:42 you've got 400 customers some of them

00:18:42 you've got 400 customers some of them might be in Europe and you just got a
00:18:44 might be in Europe and you just got a

00:18:44 might be in Europe and you just got a notice from your online email provider
00:18:46 notice from your online email provider

00:18:46 notice from your online email provider that they've had a breach the FBI is
00:18:48 that they've had a breach the FBI is

00:18:48 that they've had a breach the FBI is working larger cases than that they're
00:18:51 working larger cases than that they're

00:18:51 working larger cases than that they're not necessarily going to be able to
00:18:52 not necessarily going to be able to

00:18:52 not necessarily going to be able to really walk you through all of the
00:18:54 really walk you through all of the

00:18:54 really walk you through all of the details of what should you go do next so
00:18:56 details of what should you go do next so

00:18:56 details of what should you go do next so this is one as we move from physical
00:18:58 this is one as we move from physical

00:18:58 this is one as we move from physical business to cyber business it doesn't
00:19:00 business to cyber business it doesn't

00:19:00 business to cyber business it doesn't feel like necessarily we we have the the
00:19:03 feel like necessarily we we have the the

00:19:03 feel like necessarily we we have the the public support framework set up for
00:19:04 public support framework set up for

00:19:04 public support framework set up for businesses that we do on the physical
00:19:06 businesses that we do on the physical

00:19:06 businesses that we do on the physical side of things I think that's true and I
00:19:09 side of things I think that's true and I

00:19:09 side of things I think that's true and I think at this point I think Joe probably
00:19:11 think at this point I think Joe probably

00:19:11 think at this point I think Joe probably has some very interesting inputs on this
00:19:15 has some very interesting inputs on this

00:19:15 has some very interesting inputs on this because in his cases that he's dealt
00:19:17 because in his cases that he's dealt

00:19:17 because in his cases that he's dealt with on the litigation side the FBI was
00:19:20 with on the litigation side the FBI was

00:19:20 with on the litigation side the FBI was brought in so so you can call them but
00:19:22 brought in so so you can call them but

00:19:22 brought in so so you can call them but there are limitations to what they can
00:19:24 there are limitations to what they can

00:19:24 there are limitations to what they can do and I think we we need to sort of
00:19:25 do and I think we we need to sort of

00:19:25 do and I think we we need to sort of make that clear yeah yeah so I'll just
00:19:28 make that clear yeah yeah so I'll just

00:19:28 make that clear yeah yeah so I'll just kinda jump in here
00:19:30 kinda jump in here

00:19:30 kinda jump in here you know when money's stolen you can
00:19:32 you know when money's stolen you can

00:19:32 you know when money's stolen you can call the FBI and they'll try and track
00:19:34 call the FBI and they'll try and track

00:19:34 call the FBI and they'll try and track it down especially when you're talking
00:19:36 it down especially when you're talking

00:19:36 it down especially when you're talking you know down payments on a real estate
00:19:38 you know down payments on a real estate

00:19:38 you know down payments on a real estate purchase and or maybe even more than a
00:19:40 purchase and or maybe even more than a

00:19:40 purchase and or maybe even more than a down payment it could be the actual full
00:19:42 down payment it could be the actual full

00:19:42 down payment it could be the actual full funding from the lender so it could be
00:19:44 funding from the lender so it could be

00:19:44 funding from the lender so it could be the 80% instead of the 20%
00:19:46 the 80% instead of the 20%

00:19:46 the 80% instead of the 20% unfortunately in both the cases I've
00:19:48 unfortunately in both the cases I've

00:19:48 unfortunately in both the cases I've dealt with on this the hacker got away
00:19:50 dealt with on this the hacker got away

00:19:50 dealt with on this the hacker got away with the entire purchase price do it
00:19:54 with the entire purchase price do it

00:19:54 with the entire purchase price do it closing and you know the FBI once
00:19:56 closing and you know the FBI once

00:19:56 closing and you know the FBI once they're contacted they're gonna try and
00:19:57 they're contacted they're gonna try and

00:19:57 they're contacted they're gonna try and go and freeze bank accounts and recover
00:19:59 go and freeze bank accounts and recover

00:19:59 go and freeze bank accounts and recover money unfortunately the folks stealing
00:20:02 money unfortunately the folks stealing

00:20:02 money unfortunately the folks stealing the money are very quick to withdrawal
00:20:05 the money are very quick to withdrawal

00:20:05 the money are very quick to withdrawal the money as soon as possible once it's
00:20:07 the money as soon as possible once it's

00:20:07 the money as soon as possible once it's left the financial institution there's
00:20:10 left the financial institution there's

00:20:10 left the financial institution there's very little you can do to actually
00:20:11 very little you can do to actually

00:20:11 very little you can do to actually recover the funds and so in the the two
00:20:14 recover the funds and so in the the two

00:20:14 recover the funds and so in the the two cases I'm thinking about you may be
00:20:15 cases I'm thinking about you may be

00:20:15 cases I'm thinking about you may be thinking oh this is really abstract I'm
00:20:17 thinking oh this is really abstract I'm

00:20:17 thinking oh this is really abstract I'm just an everyday person houses how could
00:20:20 just an everyday person houses how could

00:20:20 just an everyday person houses how could this affect me well really the American
00:20:22 this affect me well really the American

00:20:22 this affect me well really the American Dream is buying and owning a home and
00:20:24 Dream is buying and owning a home and

00:20:24 Dream is buying and owning a home and unfortunately I've dealt with multiple
00:20:27 unfortunately I've dealt with multiple

00:20:27 unfortunately I've dealt with multiple cases where at closing the purchase
00:20:29 cases where at closing the purchase

00:20:29 cases where at closing the purchase price of the residential homes been
00:20:31 price of the residential homes been

00:20:31 price of the residential homes been stolen from a hacker and one instance
00:20:35 stolen from a hacker and one instance

00:20:35 stolen from a hacker and one instance actually made it all the way to trial
00:20:36 actually made it all the way to trial

00:20:36 actually made it all the way to trial the parties couldn't agree who was
00:20:38 the parties couldn't agree who was

00:20:38 the parties couldn't agree who was really at fault and the jury had to
00:20:39 really at fault and the jury had to

00:20:39 really at fault and the jury had to decide that the sellers email address
00:20:42 decide that the sellers email address

00:20:42 decide that the sellers email address been hacked some point during the
00:20:44 been hacked some point during the

00:20:44 been hacked some point during the process they had a email address they
00:20:47 process they had a email address they

00:20:47 process they had a email address they were widely available you know can a
00:20:49 were widely available you know can a

00:20:49 were widely available you know can a free email provider they didn't really
00:20:52 free email provider they didn't really

00:20:52 free email provider they didn't really take very good care of their security I
00:20:55 take very good care of their security I

00:20:55 take very good care of their security I mean their their password was a
00:20:58 mean their their password was a

00:20:58 mean their their password was a combination of name and birthdate pretty
00:21:01 combination of name and birthdate pretty

00:21:01 combination of name and birthdate pretty pretty easy to guess and low on the
00:21:03 pretty easy to guess and low on the

00:21:03 pretty easy to guess and low on the security scale and what ended up
00:21:05 security scale and what ended up

00:21:05 security scale and what ended up happening with that is just shortly
00:21:08 happening with that is just shortly

00:21:08 happening with that is just shortly prior to closing the money in up until
00:21:11 prior to closing the money in up until

00:21:11 prior to closing the money in up until this time all the wiring instructions
00:21:13 this time all the wiring instructions

00:21:13 this time all the wiring instructions have been from sellers local bank to
00:21:16 have been from sellers local bank to

00:21:16 have been from sellers local bank to buyers local bank very last-minute new
00:21:19 buyers local bank very last-minute new

00:21:19 buyers local bank very last-minute new wiring instructions come in from the
00:21:21 wiring instructions come in from the

00:21:21 wiring instructions come in from the sellers email address the title company
00:21:23 sellers email address the title company

00:21:23 sellers email address the title company saying we need to send this money to an
00:21:25 saying we need to send this money to an

00:21:25 saying we need to send this money to an overseas bank now at this point probably
00:21:28 overseas bank now at this point probably

00:21:28 overseas bank now at this point probably a phone call seeing this name please
00:21:31 a phone call seeing this name please

00:21:31 a phone call seeing this name please verify out-of-band if you're out there
00:21:32 verify out-of-band if you're out there

00:21:32 verify out-of-band if you're out there ever if you get a suspicious message
00:21:34 ever if you get a suspicious message

00:21:34 ever if you get a suspicious message please verify out-of-band pick a second
00:21:36 please verify out-of-band pick a second

00:21:36 please verify out-of-band pick a second way whether if they contact you via
00:21:38 way whether if they contact you via

00:21:38 way whether if they contact you via email pick up the phone and call them if
00:21:40 email pick up the phone and call them if

00:21:40 email pick up the phone and call them if they pick up the phone and called you
00:21:42 they pick up the phone and called you

00:21:42 they pick up the phone and called you you can spoof audio these days send an
00:21:44 you can spoof audio these days send an

00:21:44 you can spoof audio these days send an email like get to different channels to
00:21:47 email like get to different channels to

00:21:47 email like get to different channels to confirm we may put Jobe out of work
00:21:49 confirm we may put Jobe out of work

00:21:49 confirm we may put Jobe out of work doing that but this is the good correct
00:21:51 doing that but this is the good correct

00:21:51 doing that but this is the good correct right thing to go do if you see
00:21:54 right thing to go do if you see

00:21:54 right thing to go do if you see something that's different it just
00:21:55 something that's different it just

00:21:55 something that's different it just doesn't add up if you've gone from local
00:21:57 doesn't add up if you've gone from local

00:21:57 doesn't add up if you've gone from local bank to local bank and suddenly you have
00:21:58 bank to local bank and suddenly you have

00:21:58 bank to local bank and suddenly you have a foreign bank in Southeast Asia that's
00:22:01 a foreign bank in Southeast Asia that's

00:22:01 a foreign bank in Southeast Asia that's that's a red flag and you should
00:22:03 that's a red flag and you should

00:22:03 that's a red flag and you should probably follow up on it it didn't
00:22:05 probably follow up on it it didn't

00:22:05 probably follow up on it it didn't happen in this case and closing goes
00:22:07 happen in this case and closing goes

00:22:07 happen in this case and closing goes through
00:22:08 through

00:22:08 through the money goes to Southeast Asia is
00:22:10 the money goes to Southeast Asia is

00:22:10 the money goes to Southeast Asia is quickly withdrawn and even after the FBI
00:22:13 quickly withdrawn and even after the FBI

00:22:13 quickly withdrawn and even after the FBI got involved
00:22:15 got involved

00:22:15 got involved there's no way to claw it back so you
00:22:17 there's no way to claw it back so you

00:22:17 there's no way to claw it back so you end up with a lawsuit here and in Texas
00:22:20 end up with a lawsuit here and in Texas

00:22:20 end up with a lawsuit here and in Texas it differs state to state but in Texas
00:22:22 it differs state to state but in Texas

00:22:22 it differs state to state but in Texas you can argue proportionate
00:22:23 you can argue proportionate

00:22:23 you can argue proportionate responsibility where the jury can assign
00:22:26 responsibility where the jury can assign

00:22:26 responsibility where the jury can assign percentages of blame to all the parties
00:22:28 percentages of blame to all the parties

00:22:28 percentages of blame to all the parties involved so in this case he had the
00:22:30 involved so in this case he had the

00:22:30 involved so in this case he had the seller who you would argue they were
00:22:32 seller who you would argue they were

00:22:32 seller who you would argue they were partially responsible for what happened
00:22:34 partially responsible for what happened

00:22:34 partially responsible for what happened because it was their email address that
00:22:36 because it was their email address that

00:22:36 because it was their email address that was hacked
00:22:37 was hacked

00:22:37 was hacked you had the escrow agent title company
00:22:40 you had the escrow agent title company

00:22:40 you had the escrow agent title company who you know they have the duty to make
00:22:42 who you know they have the duty to make

00:22:42 who you know they have the duty to make sure the money changes proper hands from
00:22:44 sure the money changes proper hands from

00:22:44 sure the money changes proper hands from buyer to seller yeah and you had another
00:22:47 buyer to seller yeah and you had another

00:22:47 buyer to seller yeah and you had another party you had the criminal third party
00:22:49 party you had the criminal third party

00:22:49 party you had the criminal third party that the hacker we were able to present
00:22:51 that the hacker we were able to present

00:22:51 that the hacker we were able to present it to the jury that really the person
00:22:53 it to the jury that really the person

00:22:53 it to the jury that really the person he's responsible for this is the hacker
00:22:55 he's responsible for this is the hacker

00:22:55 he's responsible for this is the hacker unfortunately for the title company the
00:22:57 unfortunately for the title company the

00:22:57 unfortunately for the title company the the jury of their local peers decided
00:23:00 the jury of their local peers decided

00:23:00 the jury of their local peers decided you know that criminal they're not here
00:23:02 you know that criminal they're not here

00:23:02 you know that criminal they're not here the title company is they can pay this
00:23:04 the title company is they can pay this

00:23:04 the title company is they can pay this judgment and the the title company got
00:23:06 judgment and the the title company got

00:23:06 judgment and the the title company got hammered on it even though the jury had
00:23:09 hammered on it even though the jury had

00:23:09 hammered on it even though the jury had a choice to assign blame to a criminal
00:23:11 a choice to assign blame to a criminal

00:23:11 a choice to assign blame to a criminal unfortunately a jury's not going to find
00:23:13 unfortunately a jury's not going to find

00:23:13 unfortunately a jury's not going to find much fault with an empty chair when they
00:23:15 much fault with an empty chair when they

00:23:15 much fault with an empty chair when they have a real living defendant and this is
00:23:18 have a real living defendant and this is

00:23:18 have a real living defendant and this is an interesting one as well so folks are
00:23:20 an interesting one as well so folks are

00:23:20 an interesting one as well so folks are like well what's the big deal if my
00:23:21 like well what's the big deal if my

00:23:21 like well what's the big deal if my email gets hacked I'm just a personal
00:23:23 email gets hacked I'm just a personal

00:23:23 email gets hacked I'm just a personal consumer and I I'll just find out about
00:23:25 consumer and I I'll just find out about

00:23:25 consumer and I I'll just find out about it and I'll go ahead and reset my
00:23:27 it and I'll go ahead and reset my

00:23:27 it and I'll go ahead and reset my password and it won't be a big deal but
00:23:29 password and it won't be a big deal but

00:23:29 password and it won't be a big deal but the hackers are getting more
00:23:30 the hackers are getting more

00:23:30 the hackers are getting more sophisticated these days so they're
00:23:32 sophisticated these days so they're

00:23:32 sophisticated these days so they're sitting in your email account with
00:23:34 sitting in your email account with

00:23:34 sitting in your email account with monitoring waiting to see that you're
00:23:36 monitoring waiting to see that you're

00:23:36 monitoring waiting to see that you're buying a house you're selling a house
00:23:37 buying a house you're selling a house

00:23:37 buying a house you're selling a house you're just received an inheritance
00:23:39 you're just received an inheritance

00:23:39 you're just received an inheritance they're waiting latent inside of these
00:23:41 they're waiting latent inside of these

00:23:41 they're waiting latent inside of these accounts to be able to pounce on those
00:23:44 accounts to be able to pounce on those

00:23:44 accounts to be able to pounce on those opportune times with you so if you see
00:23:47 opportune times with you so if you see

00:23:47 opportune times with you so if you see these notices that says your hey your
00:23:49 these notices that says your hey your

00:23:49 these notices that says your hey your accounts been breached please change
00:23:50 accounts been breached please change

00:23:50 accounts been breached please change your password or like Yahoo sent out big
00:23:53 your password or like Yahoo sent out big

00:23:53 your password or like Yahoo sent out big notices a whole bunch of folks have sent
00:23:55 notices a whole bunch of folks have sent

00:23:55 notices a whole bunch of folks have sent notices out saying hey your passwords
00:23:57 notices out saying hey your passwords

00:23:57 notices out saying hey your passwords are probably compromised please pick a
00:23:58 are probably compromised please pick a

00:23:58 are probably compromised please pick a new one please pick a new one and please
00:24:01 new one please pick a new one and please

00:24:01 new one please pick a new one and please don't pick one that is your your your
00:24:02 don't pick one that is your your your

00:24:02 don't pick one that is your your your dog's name those are sort of things that
00:24:05 dog's name those are sort of things that

00:24:05 dog's name those are sort of things that are gonna get guessed very quickly
00:24:06 are gonna get guessed very quickly

00:24:06 are gonna get guessed very quickly mm-hmm and unfortunately this was a
00:24:09 mm-hmm and unfortunately this was a

00:24:09 mm-hmm and unfortunately this was a situation where the sellers email
00:24:12 situation where the sellers email

00:24:12 situation where the sellers email address was hacked the hacker those
00:24:14 address was hacked the hacker those

00:24:14 address was hacked the hacker those inside there
00:24:16 inside there

00:24:16 inside there email service was sending emails from
00:24:19 email service was sending emails from

00:24:19 email service was sending emails from their account and been deleting the
00:24:21 their account and been deleting the

00:24:21 their account and been deleting the emails from the sent folder so even if
00:24:23 emails from the sent folder so even if

00:24:23 emails from the sent folder so even if they had logged in
00:24:25 they had logged in

00:24:25 they had logged in they were actually sending these emails
00:24:26 they were actually sending these emails

00:24:26 they were actually sending these emails with these different instructions were
00:24:28 with these different instructions were

00:24:28 with these different instructions were really where I started at it a phone
00:24:31 really where I started at it a phone

00:24:31 really where I started at it a phone call would have hopefully put the brakes
00:24:33 call would have hopefully put the brakes

00:24:33 call would have hopefully put the brakes on what happened we will go ahead and
00:24:36 on what happened we will go ahead and

00:24:36 on what happened we will go ahead and pick this up after the break where Joe
00:24:37 pick this up after the break where Joe

00:24:37 pick this up after the break where Joe will finish talking through the story
00:24:39 will finish talking through the story

00:24:39 will finish talking through the story and tell you some tips to avoid having
00:24:42 and tell you some tips to avoid having

00:24:42 and tell you some tips to avoid having this happen to you we will have a news
00:24:44 this happen to you we will have a news

00:24:44 this happen to you we will have a news traffic and weather update and be back
00:24:45 traffic and weather update and be back

00:24:45 traffic and weather update and be back with cyber talk radio
00:25:01


00:25:01
[Music]
00:25:16


00:25:16
welcome back to cyber talk radio I'm
00:25:19 welcome back to cyber talk radio I'm

00:25:19 welcome back to cyber talk radio I'm your host Bret Pyatt a 20-year internet
00:25:21 your host Bret Pyatt a 20-year internet

00:25:21 your host Bret Pyatt a 20-year internet security veteran joined this week by two
00:25:24 security veteran joined this week by two

00:25:24 security veteran joined this week by two attorneys from Langley and Binaca
00:25:25 attorneys from Langley and Binaca

00:25:25 attorneys from Langley and Binaca one of the San Antonio's longest
00:25:27 one of the San Antonio's longest

00:25:27 one of the San Antonio's longest standing locally owned law firms you
00:25:29 standing locally owned law firms you

00:25:29 standing locally owned law firms you guys are headquartered here in the city
00:25:32 guys are headquartered here in the city

00:25:32 guys are headquartered here in the city of San Antonio correct we are yeah do
00:25:34 of San Antonio correct we are yeah do

00:25:34 of San Antonio correct we are yeah do you have offices outside of San Antonio
00:25:35 you have offices outside of San Antonio

00:25:35 you have offices outside of San Antonio we do all across South Texas young
00:25:39 we do all across South Texas young

00:25:39 we do all across South Texas young Theresa Springs Eagle Pass New Braunfels
00:25:42 Theresa Springs Eagle Pass New Braunfels

00:25:42 Theresa Springs Eagle Pass New Braunfels do Caron City as well yeah all across
00:25:46 do Caron City as well yeah all across

00:25:46 do Caron City as well yeah all across South Texas they are a full-service firm
00:25:48 South Texas they are a full-service firm

00:25:48 South Texas they are a full-service firm today we're talking cyber security and
00:25:50 today we're talking cyber security and

00:25:50 today we're talking cyber security and some litigation tied to that cyber
00:25:52 some litigation tied to that cyber

00:25:52 some litigation tied to that cyber security these conversations are not
00:25:54 security these conversations are not

00:25:54 security these conversations are not legal advice for you specifically so if
00:25:57 legal advice for you specifically so if

00:25:57 legal advice for you specifically so if you would like legal advice please call
00:25:59 you would like legal advice please call

00:25:59 you would like legal advice please call it's reasonable to have a conversation
00:26:01 it's reasonable to have a conversation

00:26:01 it's reasonable to have a conversation it's much more reasonable to have a
00:26:03 it's much more reasonable to have a

00:26:03 it's much more reasonable to have a conversation that'll put your head in
00:26:04 conversation that'll put your head in

00:26:04 conversation that'll put your head in the sand and and ignore these things so
00:26:06 the sand and and ignore these things so

00:26:06 the sand and and ignore these things so if you've had a data breach if you've
00:26:08 if you've had a data breach if you've

00:26:08 if you've had a data breach if you've had a some privacy thing that you're
00:26:12 had a some privacy thing that you're

00:26:12 had a some privacy thing that you're really worried about having that initial
00:26:13 really worried about having that initial

00:26:13 really worried about having that initial conversation goes a long way in kind of
00:26:17 conversation goes a long way in kind of

00:26:17 conversation goes a long way in kind of being reasonable and doing the
00:26:19 being reasonable and doing the

00:26:19 being reasonable and doing the reasonable things so that you're you're
00:26:21 reasonable things so that you're you're

00:26:21 reasonable things so that you're you're held to one view whereas if you just
00:26:23 held to one view whereas if you just

00:26:23 held to one view whereas if you just kind of pretend you're an ostrich and
00:26:25 kind of pretend you're an ostrich and

00:26:25 kind of pretend you're an ostrich and ignore it the in the event that these
00:26:28 ignore it the in the event that these

00:26:28 ignore it the in the event that these things continue to unwind it's not going
00:26:30 things continue to unwind it's not going

00:26:30 things continue to unwind it's not going to be good for you to take that ostrich
00:26:32 to be good for you to take that ostrich

00:26:32 to be good for you to take that ostrich stance so heading into the break we were
00:26:35 stance so heading into the break we were

00:26:35 stance so heading into the break we were talking through a title company and a
00:26:37 talking through a title company and a

00:26:37 talking through a title company and a seller and uh this suit went through
00:26:40 seller and uh this suit went through

00:26:40 seller and uh this suit went through trial and so jury decided title
00:26:43 trial and so jury decided title

00:26:43 trial and so jury decided title company's fault because the criminals
00:26:46 company's fault because the criminals

00:26:46 company's fault because the criminals fault as criminals overseas they can't
00:26:47 fault as criminals overseas they can't

00:26:47 fault as criminals overseas they can't really blame them
00:26:48 really blame them

00:26:48 really blame them I mean they could but then no one gets
00:26:50 I mean they could but then no one gets

00:26:50 I mean they could but then no one gets paid so they decide the title company
00:26:53 paid so they decide the title company

00:26:53 paid so they decide the title company had enough of a bank account to be able
00:26:54 had enough of a bank account to be able

00:26:54 had enough of a bank account to be able to make the seller and buyer whole so
00:26:56 to make the seller and buyer whole so

00:26:56 to make the seller and buyer whole so someone still gets to have their house
00:26:57 someone still gets to have their house

00:26:57 someone still gets to have their house in this case so if you just joining us
00:27:01 in this case so if you just joining us

00:27:01 in this case so if you just joining us here after the break you can listen to
00:27:02 here after the break you can listen to

00:27:02 here after the break you can listen to the rebroadcast of our program I'll be
00:27:05 the rebroadcast of our program I'll be

00:27:05 the rebroadcast of our program I'll be up on our website wwsz bertok radio.com
00:27:07 up on our website wwsz bertok radio.com

00:27:07 up on our website wwsz bertok radio.com on Tuesday June 19th it'll also be on
00:27:11 on Tuesday June 19th it'll also be on

00:27:11 on Tuesday June 19th it'll also be on itunes podcasts or your favorite
00:27:13 itunes podcasts or your favorite

00:27:13 itunes podcasts or your favorite podcasting app for your Android devices
00:27:15 podcasting app for your Android devices

00:27:15 podcasting app for your Android devices out there if you listen to those while
00:27:17 out there if you listen to those while

00:27:17 out there if you listen to those while you're driving around so job just
00:27:20 you're driving around so job just

00:27:20 you're driving around so job just picking up there we were kind of going
00:27:22 picking up there we were kind of going

00:27:22 picking up there we were kind of going through the things had been decided and
00:27:24 through the things had been decided and

00:27:24 through the things had been decided and the title company probably should have
00:27:26 the title company probably should have

00:27:26 the title company probably should have noticed some of these during the that
00:27:27 noticed some of these during the that

00:27:27 noticed some of these during the that traffic and weather updates you were
00:27:29 traffic and weather updates you were

00:27:29 traffic and weather updates you were talking about the email address has even
00:27:30 talking about the email address has even

00:27:30 talking about the email address has even started
00:27:30 started

00:27:30 started change yeah and so you know one of the
00:27:33 change yeah and so you know one of the

00:27:33 change yeah and so you know one of the obvious red flags in this case should
00:27:34 obvious red flags in this case should

00:27:35 obvious red flags in this case should have been when you had the bank
00:27:36 have been when you had the bank

00:27:36 have been when you had the bank information changing pretty drastically
00:27:38 information changing pretty drastically

00:27:38 information changing pretty drastically from local banks receiving the funds to
00:27:40 from local banks receiving the funds to

00:27:40 from local banks receiving the funds to international bank but also something
00:27:43 international bank but also something

00:27:43 international bank but also something that probably could have been caught and
00:27:44 that probably could have been caught and

00:27:44 that probably could have been caught and really was presented to the jury was the
00:27:46 really was presented to the jury was the

00:27:46 really was presented to the jury was the fact that the emails from the sellers
00:27:49 fact that the emails from the sellers

00:27:49 fact that the emails from the sellers weren't consistent throughout all the
00:27:51 weren't consistent throughout all the

00:27:51 weren't consistent throughout all the communications prior to closing just for
00:27:54 communications prior to closing just for

00:27:54 communications prior to closing just for example the the sellers email was you
00:27:57 example the the sellers email was you

00:27:57 example the the sellers email was you know they're a combination of their
00:27:59 know they're a combination of their

00:27:59 know they're a combination of their first and last name at for example
00:28:01 first and last name at for example

00:28:01 first and last name at for example yahoo.com and so you know if you're
00:28:05 yahoo.com and so you know if you're

00:28:05 yahoo.com and so you know if you're opening up your browser to look at an
00:28:07 opening up your browser to look at an

00:28:07 opening up your browser to look at an email it usually doesn't show the email
00:28:08 email it usually doesn't show the email

00:28:08 email it usually doesn't show the email endings you say oh you're game email
00:28:10 endings you say oh you're game email

00:28:10 endings you say oh you're game email from John Doe however some of the hacked
00:28:13 from John Doe however some of the hacked

00:28:13 from John Doe however some of the hacked emails in this we're also coming from
00:28:15 emails in this we're also coming from

00:28:15 emails in this we're also coming from emails at John Doe at for example
00:28:18 emails at John Doe at for example

00:28:18 emails at John Doe at for example hotmail calm where if he had slowed down
00:28:21 hotmail calm where if he had slowed down

00:28:21 hotmail calm where if he had slowed down notice the red flags maybe something's
00:28:24 notice the red flags maybe something's

00:28:24 notice the red flags maybe something's not right here you would have been able
00:28:27 not right here you would have been able

00:28:27 not right here you would have been able to realize that these were coming from
00:28:28 to realize that these were coming from

00:28:28 to realize that these were coming from completely different email addresses
00:28:30 completely different email addresses

00:28:30 completely different email addresses just using the same first name so at
00:28:33 just using the same first name so at

00:28:33 just using the same first name so at first at first glance it may have looked
00:28:34 first at first glance it may have looked

00:28:35 first at first glance it may have looked like it was from John Doe but it really
00:28:36 like it was from John Doe but it really

00:28:36 like it was from John Doe but it really wasn't yeah in your email client there's
00:28:39 wasn't yeah in your email client there's

00:28:39 wasn't yeah in your email client there's usually a little button up there that
00:28:40 usually a little button up there that

00:28:40 usually a little button up there that says view details or something like that
00:28:42 says view details or something like that

00:28:42 says view details or something like that if you click on that one especially if
00:28:44 if you click on that one especially if

00:28:44 if you click on that one especially if it's an email about wiring hundreds of
00:28:46 it's an email about wiring hundreds of

00:28:46 it's an email about wiring hundreds of thousands of dollars please click on
00:28:47 thousands of dollars please click on

00:28:47 thousands of dollars please click on that but even if it's a an email just
00:28:49 that but even if it's a an email just

00:28:49 that but even if it's a an email just about one of the scams that we we see a
00:28:53 about one of the scams that we we see a

00:28:53 about one of the scams that we we see a fairly regular basis is during tax
00:28:56 fairly regular basis is during tax

00:28:56 fairly regular basis is during tax season people will spoof being a
00:28:58 season people will spoof being a

00:28:58 season people will spoof being a company's accounting firms or their
00:29:01 company's accounting firms or their

00:29:01 company's accounting firms or their payroll firm and they'll say hey I need
00:29:03 payroll firm and they'll say hey I need

00:29:03 payroll firm and they'll say hey I need a spreadsheet filled out with all of the
00:29:05 a spreadsheet filled out with all of the

00:29:05 a spreadsheet filled out with all of the employees Social Security numbers and
00:29:06 employees Social Security numbers and

00:29:06 employees Social Security numbers and birth dates for tax filing information
00:29:08 birth dates for tax filing information

00:29:08 birth dates for tax filing information and that will end up in to getting sent
00:29:10 and that will end up in to getting sent

00:29:10 and that will end up in to getting sent to people in HR departments and click on
00:29:13 to people in HR departments and click on

00:29:13 to people in HR departments and click on those view details check and see is this
00:29:15 those view details check and see is this

00:29:15 those view details check and see is this really the email address from the person
00:29:17 really the email address from the person

00:29:17 really the email address from the person on the contact list that sends you and
00:29:19 on the contact list that sends you and

00:29:19 on the contact list that sends you and as you'd mentioned as well then pick up
00:29:20 as you'd mentioned as well then pick up

00:29:20 as you'd mentioned as well then pick up the phone and call them like do you
00:29:21 the phone and call them like do you

00:29:21 the phone and call them like do you really need this and why and so can the
00:29:25 really need this and why and so can the

00:29:25 really need this and why and so can the second example you know that first
00:29:26 second example you know that first

00:29:26 second example you know that first example is is a case where the hacking
00:29:29 example is is a case where the hacking

00:29:29 example is is a case where the hacking occurred on the consumer and using a
00:29:30 occurred on the consumer and using a

00:29:30 occurred on the consumer and using a less protected web browser at the time
00:29:33 less protected web browser at the time

00:29:33 less protected web browser at the time it ended end up going to trials there
00:29:35 it ended end up going to trials there

00:29:35 it ended end up going to trials there was some idea that a jury might
00:29:37 was some idea that a jury might

00:29:37 was some idea that a jury might apportion more fault to the consumer for
00:29:40 apportion more fault to the consumer for

00:29:40 apportion more fault to the consumer for not using
00:29:41 not using

00:29:41 not using good web-based security practices and it
00:29:44 good web-based security practices and it

00:29:44 good web-based security practices and it the crime originated through their email
00:29:47 the crime originated through their email

00:29:47 the crime originated through their email address that's not always what happens
00:29:50 address that's not always what happens

00:29:50 address that's not always what happens in other case I've dealt with recently
00:29:54 in other case I've dealt with recently

00:29:54 in other case I've dealt with recently dealt with some grandparents who are
00:29:56 dealt with some grandparents who are

00:29:56 dealt with some grandparents who are moving from out of state to live closer
00:29:59 moving from out of state to live closer

00:29:59 moving from out of state to live closer to their grandchildren very sympathetic
00:30:00 to their grandchildren very sympathetic

00:30:00 to their grandchildren very sympathetic party use their life savings to buy a
00:30:03 party use their life savings to buy a

00:30:03 party use their life savings to buy a house did everything right went through
00:30:06 house did everything right went through

00:30:06 house did everything right went through a title company found their their their
00:30:08 a title company found their their their

00:30:08 a title company found their their their dream home be close to family and lo and
00:30:12 dream home be close to family and lo and

00:30:12 dream home be close to family and lo and behold they get a request from the title
00:30:17 behold they get a request from the title

00:30:17 behold they get a request from the title company through the real estate agent to
00:30:19 company through the real estate agent to

00:30:19 company through the real estate agent to approve wiring instructions and at this
00:30:22 approve wiring instructions and at this

00:30:22 approve wiring instructions and at this point you know in this transaction your
00:30:25 point you know in this transaction your

00:30:25 point you know in this transaction your parties that you'd have here when the
00:30:27 parties that you'd have here when the

00:30:27 parties that you'd have here when the hacking occurs this is another case
00:30:28 hacking occurs this is another case

00:30:28 hacking occurs this is another case where wiring instructions send money to
00:30:30 where wiring instructions send money to

00:30:30 where wiring instructions send money to a different bank monies quickly what's
00:30:32 a different bank monies quickly what's

00:30:32 a different bank monies quickly what's wrong the FBI can't get it back is your
00:30:35 wrong the FBI can't get it back is your

00:30:35 wrong the FBI can't get it back is your parties here were yet the buyers the
00:30:38 parties here were yet the buyers the

00:30:38 parties here were yet the buyers the aggrieved party the the plaintiffs the
00:30:39 aggrieved party the the plaintiffs the

00:30:39 aggrieved party the the plaintiffs the claimants you have the real estate agent
00:30:42 claimants you have the real estate agent

00:30:42 claimants you have the real estate agent who they sued claiming you know you
00:30:45 who they sued claiming you know you

00:30:45 who they sued claiming you know you should have better protected my
00:30:46 should have better protected my

00:30:46 should have better protected my information or caught this and you have
00:30:49 information or caught this and you have

00:30:49 information or caught this and you have the title company which of course has
00:30:51 the title company which of course has

00:30:51 the title company which of course has the duty to make sure that money
00:30:52 the duty to make sure that money

00:30:52 the duty to make sure that money properly goes from the buyer to seller
00:30:54 properly goes from the buyer to seller

00:30:54 properly goes from the buyer to seller and the third party criminal was out
00:30:56 and the third party criminal was out

00:30:56 and the third party criminal was out there that that for all we know has
00:30:58 there that that for all we know has

00:30:58 there that that for all we know has never been caught in this case the
00:31:01 never been caught in this case the

00:31:01 never been caught in this case the hacking occurred on the title company
00:31:02 hacking occurred on the title company

00:31:02 hacking occurred on the title company and the emails they sent internal emails
00:31:06 and the emails they sent internal emails

00:31:06 and the emails they sent internal emails from title company employee the title
00:31:08 from title company employee the title

00:31:08 from title company employee the title company employee and they're sending out
00:31:10 company employee and they're sending out

00:31:10 company employee and they're sending out this request for to approve wiring
00:31:12 this request for to approve wiring

00:31:12 this request for to approve wiring instructions to the buyers real estate
00:31:14 instructions to the buyers real estate

00:31:14 instructions to the buyers real estate agent a red flag that should have come
00:31:17 agent a red flag that should have come

00:31:17 agent a red flag that should have come up at this point is the title company
00:31:19 up at this point is the title company

00:31:19 up at this point is the title company usually does not ask for approval wiring
00:31:22 usually does not ask for approval wiring

00:31:22 usually does not ask for approval wiring instructions through email that's
00:31:24 instructions through email that's

00:31:24 instructions through email that's usually Kevin in person so they already
00:31:27 usually Kevin in person so they already

00:31:27 usually Kevin in person so they already had some procedures to try and prevent
00:31:28 had some procedures to try and prevent

00:31:28 had some procedures to try and prevent this from happening however it just
00:31:30 this from happening however it just

00:31:30 this from happening however it just didn't get caught until hours after
00:31:32 didn't get caught until hours after

00:31:32 didn't get caught until hours after closing
00:31:33 closing

00:31:33 closing you know the buyers are relying on their
00:31:35 you know the buyers are relying on their

00:31:35 you know the buyers are relying on their real estate agent to guide them through
00:31:37 real estate agent to guide them through

00:31:37 real estate agent to guide them through the process and next thing you know
00:31:39 the process and next thing you know

00:31:39 the process and next thing you know you've lost your life savings on a home
00:31:42 you've lost your life savings on a home

00:31:42 you've lost your life savings on a home that you don't actually get at the end
00:31:45 that you don't actually get at the end

00:31:45 that you don't actually get at the end and you're going to trial in that case
00:31:48 and you're going to trial in that case

00:31:48 and you're going to trial in that case we was able to resolve itself outside of
00:31:50 we was able to resolve itself outside of

00:31:50 we was able to resolve itself outside of court but the this hacking and the
00:31:52 court but the this hacking and the

00:31:52 court but the this hacking and the real-life consequences can happen on the
00:31:54 real-life consequences can happen on the

00:31:54 real-life consequences can happen on the consumer and the
00:31:55 consumer and the

00:31:55 consumer and the business and a lot of it can be present
00:31:57 business and a lot of it can be present

00:31:57 business and a lot of it can be present prevented by just slowing down picking
00:32:00 prevented by just slowing down picking

00:32:00 prevented by just slowing down picking up the phone if you're transferring
00:32:02 up the phone if you're transferring

00:32:02 up the phone if you're transferring large sums of money try and do with a
00:32:03 large sums of money try and do with a

00:32:03 large sums of money try and do with a personal contact on there or else your
00:32:07 personal contact on there or else your

00:32:07 personal contact on there or else your end up in a situation where you're even
00:32:09 end up in a situation where you're even

00:32:09 end up in a situation where you're even to get to the point where the title
00:32:11 to get to the point where the title

00:32:11 to get to the point where the title company is willing to give you the money
00:32:13 company is willing to give you the money

00:32:13 company is willing to give you the money to try and make this right you will have
00:32:16 to try and make this right you will have

00:32:16 to try and make this right you will have spent thousands of dollars on attorneys
00:32:18 spent thousands of dollars on attorneys

00:32:18 spent thousands of dollars on attorneys fees to get there until with an
00:32:20 fees to get there until with an

00:32:20 fees to get there until with an emotional heartbreaking frustration in
00:32:22 emotional heartbreaking frustration in

00:32:22 emotional heartbreaking frustration in the house you wanted may not be there
00:32:24 the house you wanted may not be there

00:32:24 the house you wanted may not be there anymore because the sellers got to put
00:32:25 anymore because the sellers got to put

00:32:25 anymore because the sellers got to put it back on the market and try to get
00:32:27 it back on the market and try to get

00:32:27 it back on the market and try to get another buyer while this is all going
00:32:28 another buyer while this is all going

00:32:28 another buyer while this is all going along you can't get an injunction or
00:32:30 along you can't get an injunction or

00:32:30 along you can't get an injunction or something to force the seller did not
00:32:32 something to force the seller did not

00:32:32 something to force the seller did not sell their property while this is all
00:32:33 sell their property while this is all

00:32:33 sell their property while this is all getting sorted out correct and all that
00:32:35 getting sorted out correct and all that

00:32:35 getting sorted out correct and all that in this case they didn't end up getting
00:32:37 in this case they didn't end up getting

00:32:37 in this case they didn't end up getting the dream home they had to yeah get a
00:32:39 the dream home they had to yeah get a

00:32:39 the dream home they had to yeah get a different home but these different it
00:32:41 different home but these different it

00:32:41 different home but these different it happens to real people son abstract
00:32:43 happens to real people son abstract

00:32:43 happens to real people son abstract concept you know I've dealt with in the
00:32:47 concept you know I've dealt with in the

00:32:47 concept you know I've dealt with in the home buying process but all these real
00:32:49 home buying process but all these real

00:32:49 home buying process but all these real estate transactions are prime targets
00:32:51 estate transactions are prime targets

00:32:51 estate transactions are prime targets because you have a large sum of money
00:32:53 because you have a large sum of money

00:32:53 because you have a large sum of money changing hands and single transaction
00:32:55 changing hands and single transaction

00:32:55 changing hands and single transaction and just happens to real people and can
00:32:57 and just happens to real people and can

00:32:57 and just happens to real people and can be prevented by better practices at the
00:33:00 be prevented by better practices at the

00:33:00 be prevented by better practices at the corporate level and just as an
00:33:01 corporate level and just as an

00:33:01 corporate level and just as an individual's thinking things through
00:33:03 individual's thinking things through

00:33:03 individual's thinking things through slowing down and being cautious yeah so
00:33:06 slowing down and being cautious yeah so

00:33:06 slowing down and being cautious yeah so another one that many folks in the
00:33:08 another one that many folks in the

00:33:08 another one that many folks in the listening audience out there may be
00:33:09 listening audience out there may be

00:33:09 listening audience out there may be impacted by is so let's say that you're
00:33:12 impacted by is so let's say that you're

00:33:12 impacted by is so let's say that you're a a restaurant and you've got a liquor
00:33:16 a a restaurant and you've got a liquor

00:33:16 a a restaurant and you've got a liquor distributor and you you get a spoofed
00:33:18 distributor and you you get a spoofed

00:33:18 distributor and you you get a spoofed message coming from your liquor
00:33:20 message coming from your liquor

00:33:20 message coming from your liquor distributor saying hey we need you to
00:33:22 distributor saying hey we need you to

00:33:22 distributor saying hey we need you to update our banking information we
00:33:24 update our banking information we

00:33:24 update our banking information we switched banks it goes into the accounts
00:33:26 switched banks it goes into the accounts

00:33:26 switched banks it goes into the accounts payable person at the the restaurant and
00:33:29 payable person at the the restaurant and

00:33:29 payable person at the the restaurant and so they go well I've got a updated
00:33:31 so they go well I've got a updated

00:33:31 so they go well I've got a updated request from our liquor distributor to
00:33:32 request from our liquor distributor to

00:33:32 request from our liquor distributor to change banking information so they go
00:33:34 change banking information so they go

00:33:34 change banking information so they go into your accounting system then they
00:33:36 into your accounting system then they

00:33:36 into your accounting system then they update it in there they just change the
00:33:38 update it in there they just change the

00:33:38 update it in there they just change the banking information just one email
00:33:40 banking information just one email

00:33:40 banking information just one email nothing else so they don't actually ask
00:33:41 nothing else so they don't actually ask

00:33:41 nothing else so they don't actually ask for money right now and you wait a
00:33:43 for money right now and you wait a

00:33:43 for money right now and you wait a couple of weeks and you you get your
00:33:45 couple of weeks and you you get your

00:33:45 couple of weeks and you you get your regular invoice in from the actual
00:33:47 regular invoice in from the actual

00:33:47 regular invoice in from the actual person at the liquor distributor and you
00:33:50 person at the liquor distributor and you

00:33:50 person at the liquor distributor and you see it is the Accounts Payable person at
00:33:52 see it is the Accounts Payable person at

00:33:52 see it is the Accounts Payable person at the restaurant and you pay the invoice
00:33:54 the restaurant and you pay the invoice

00:33:54 the restaurant and you pay the invoice off - the money goes to the new location
00:33:57 off - the money goes to the new location

00:33:57 off - the money goes to the new location a week goes by and then the distributor
00:34:00 a week goes by and then the distributor

00:34:00 a week goes by and then the distributor calls you their accounts receivable and
00:34:02 calls you their accounts receivable and

00:34:02 calls you their accounts receivable and says hey you guys normally pay us on
00:34:04 says hey you guys normally pay us on

00:34:04 says hey you guys normally pay us on time why are you behind this month and
00:34:06 time why are you behind this month and

00:34:06 time why are you behind this month and you go well no I sent it out here's the
00:34:07 you go well no I sent it out here's the

00:34:07 you go well no I sent it out here's the confirmation that I sent it
00:34:09 confirmation that I sent it

00:34:09 confirmation that I sent it and phone conversation goes back and
00:34:12 and phone conversation goes back and

00:34:12 and phone conversation goes back and forth and all of a sudden some point
00:34:13 forth and all of a sudden some point

00:34:13 forth and all of a sudden some point there someone's face goes pale white and
00:34:15 there someone's face goes pale white and

00:34:15 there someone's face goes pale white and they realized that weeks ago they had
00:34:18 they realized that weeks ago they had

00:34:18 they realized that weeks ago they had been tricked into changing the bank
00:34:21 been tricked into changing the bank

00:34:21 been tricked into changing the bank routing information on that payee
00:34:22 routing information on that payee

00:34:22 routing information on that payee account and well you might have dual
00:34:26 account and well you might have dual

00:34:26 account and well you might have dual authorization for sending an actual
00:34:29 authorization for sending an actual

00:34:29 authorization for sending an actual payment maybe it's hundreds of thousands
00:34:31 payment maybe it's hundreds of thousands

00:34:31 payment maybe it's hundreds of thousands of dollars to that liquor distributor
00:34:33 of dollars to that liquor distributor

00:34:33 of dollars to that liquor distributor it requires an approval from the person
00:34:35 it requires an approval from the person

00:34:35 it requires an approval from the person putting the invoice in and an approval
00:34:37 putting the invoice in and an approval

00:34:37 putting the invoice in and an approval from somebody else at the company before
00:34:39 from somebody else at the company before

00:34:39 from somebody else at the company before it gets sent out
00:34:39 it gets sent out

00:34:39 it gets sent out changing the banking information that
00:34:41 changing the banking information that

00:34:41 changing the banking information that payee does not often require dual
00:34:44 payee does not often require dual

00:34:44 payee does not often require dual authorization in many of these systems
00:34:45 authorization in many of these systems

00:34:45 authorization in many of these systems so we're seeing these spots where that
00:34:48 so we're seeing these spots where that

00:34:48 so we're seeing these spots where that money has been gone for weeks sometimes
00:34:51 money has been gone for weeks sometimes

00:34:51 money has been gone for weeks sometimes if folks to only follow up on it every
00:34:52 if folks to only follow up on it every

00:34:52 if folks to only follow up on it every 30 days it could be gone for 30 or 45
00:34:55 30 days it could be gone for 30 or 45

00:34:55 30 days it could be gone for 30 or 45 days before anyone gets around to it and
00:34:59 days before anyone gets around to it and

00:34:59 days before anyone gets around to it and by then I mean it's long long gone those
00:35:02 by then I mean it's long long gone those

00:35:02 by then I mean it's long long gone those criminals are sitting on a beach
00:35:03 criminals are sitting on a beach

00:35:03 criminals are sitting on a beach somewhere in a non-extradition country
00:35:05 somewhere in a non-extradition country

00:35:05 somewhere in a non-extradition country enjoying probably some liquor from that
00:35:08 enjoying probably some liquor from that

00:35:08 enjoying probably some liquor from that not that distributor but maybe from that
00:35:09 not that distributor but maybe from that

00:35:09 not that distributor but maybe from that manufacturer and I think that's where
00:35:12 manufacturer and I think that's where

00:35:12 manufacturer and I think that's where the policies that companies need to have
00:35:15 the policies that companies need to have

00:35:15 the policies that companies need to have come back in as well as as job said as
00:35:18 come back in as well as as job said as

00:35:18 come back in as well as as job said as an individual as a consumer be watchful
00:35:21 an individual as a consumer be watchful

00:35:21 an individual as a consumer be watchful update you know you malware detection on
00:35:24 update you know you malware detection on

00:35:24 update you know you malware detection on your computer change your password when
00:35:27 your computer change your password when

00:35:27 your computer change your password when your service provider tells you you know
00:35:30 your service provider tells you you know

00:35:30 your service provider tells you you know your emails been hacked change your
00:35:31 your emails been hacked change your

00:35:31 your emails been hacked change your password use a more sophisticated
00:35:32 password use a more sophisticated

00:35:32 password use a more sophisticated password for your files and whatnot but
00:35:35 password for your files and whatnot but

00:35:35 password for your files and whatnot but the companies I think it's a different
00:35:37 the companies I think it's a different

00:35:37 the companies I think it's a different paradigm out there it's a real Wild West
00:35:40 paradigm out there it's a real Wild West

00:35:40 paradigm out there it's a real Wild West out there right now and I think some of
00:35:42 out there right now and I think some of

00:35:42 out there right now and I think some of these basic things that we used to do
00:35:44 these basic things that we used to do

00:35:44 these basic things that we used to do where we would give bank account numbers
00:35:47 where we would give bank account numbers

00:35:47 where we would give bank account numbers over the phone because it was just safer
00:35:49 over the phone because it was just safer

00:35:49 over the phone because it was just safer we didn't want to put them in writing or
00:35:50 we didn't want to put them in writing or

00:35:50 we didn't want to put them in writing or we sent letters that's gone out of the
00:35:52 we sent letters that's gone out of the

00:35:52 we sent letters that's gone out of the window because email is oh so convenient
00:35:55 window because email is oh so convenient

00:35:55 window because email is oh so convenient to follow up and sort of people check
00:35:58 to follow up and sort of people check

00:35:58 to follow up and sort of people check their common sense at the door when we
00:36:00 their common sense at the door when we

00:36:00 their common sense at the door when we get to that employee training is
00:36:03 get to that employee training is

00:36:03 get to that employee training is absolutely paramount folks you've got to
00:36:06 absolutely paramount folks you've got to

00:36:06 absolutely paramount folks you've got to work with your IT guys they are really
00:36:08 work with your IT guys they are really

00:36:08 work with your IT guys they are really really good the IT guys at our firm I
00:36:10 really good the IT guys at our firm I

00:36:10 really good the IT guys at our firm I phenomenal and I want to thank them for
00:36:13 phenomenal and I want to thank them for

00:36:13 phenomenal and I want to thank them for that but we get daily or weekly
00:36:15 that but we get daily or weekly

00:36:15 that but we get daily or weekly reminders of the latest spoof and
00:36:17 reminders of the latest spoof and

00:36:17 reminders of the latest spoof and spoofing and phishing and malware that's
00:36:20 spoofing and phishing and malware that's

00:36:20 spoofing and phishing and malware that's out there they tell us
00:36:22 out there they tell us

00:36:22 out there they tell us what to pay attention to and some of
00:36:25 what to pay attention to and some of

00:36:25 what to pay attention to and some of these emails they are very tricky they
00:36:27 these emails they are very tricky they

00:36:27 these emails they are very tricky they even got me I mean no no I know the
00:36:29 even got me I mean no no I know the

00:36:29 even got me I mean no no I know the basic staff Hoover hopper over the the
00:36:31 basic staff Hoover hopper over the the

00:36:31 basic staff Hoover hopper over the the sender email whatnot but I mean I got
00:36:34 sender email whatnot but I mean I got

00:36:34 sender email whatnot but I mean I got one the other day and it was something
00:36:35 one the other day and it was something

00:36:35 one the other day and it was something that was really targeted towards lawyers
00:36:38 that was really targeted towards lawyers

00:36:38 that was really targeted towards lawyers and I had a colleague in my office and I
00:36:40 and I had a colleague in my office and I

00:36:40 and I had a colleague in my office and I said look at this do you think this is
00:36:42 said look at this do you think this is

00:36:42 said look at this do you think this is legit and I forwarded it to mighty
00:36:43 legit and I forwarded it to mighty

00:36:43 legit and I forwarded it to mighty Department and of course it wasn't so
00:36:45 Department and of course it wasn't so

00:36:45 Department and of course it wasn't so really when you get emails where you go
00:36:48 really when you get emails where you go

00:36:48 really when you get emails where you go hmm this is strange
00:36:49 hmm this is strange

00:36:49 hmm this is strange stop pause look at it send it to your IT
00:36:52 stop pause look at it send it to your IT

00:36:52 stop pause look at it send it to your IT guy have your IT guy look at it but this
00:36:55 guy have your IT guy look at it but this

00:36:55 guy have your IT guy look at it but this is by no means just the IT department
00:36:57 is by no means just the IT department

00:36:57 is by no means just the IT department that needs to be watchful you HR folks
00:37:00 that needs to be watchful you HR folks

00:37:00 that needs to be watchful you HR folks out there and your lawyers or if you
00:37:01 out there and your lawyers or if you

00:37:01 out there and your lawyers or if you don't have in-house lawyers your outside
00:37:04 don't have in-house lawyers your outside

00:37:04 don't have in-house lawyers your outside counsel talk to them come up with a
00:37:06 counsel talk to them come up with a

00:37:06 counsel talk to them come up with a comprehensive policy employee policy so
00:37:09 comprehensive policy employee policy so

00:37:09 comprehensive policy employee policy so important employee training super
00:37:11 important employee training super

00:37:11 important employee training super important and when you have a policy
00:37:14 important and when you have a policy

00:37:14 important and when you have a policy guys you got to follow it if you have a
00:37:17 guys you got to follow it if you have a

00:37:17 guys you got to follow it if you have a website if you have a website that faces
00:37:20 website if you have a website that faces

00:37:20 website if you have a website that faces outward that gets you customers through
00:37:22 outward that gets you customers through

00:37:22 outward that gets you customers through which you sell you have a digital
00:37:23 which you sell you have a digital

00:37:24 which you sell you have a digital platform please don't just crib a notice
00:37:27 platform please don't just crib a notice

00:37:27 platform please don't just crib a notice because it sounds good from somebody
00:37:29 because it sounds good from somebody

00:37:29 because it sounds good from somebody else's website and put it there just
00:37:30 else's website and put it there just

00:37:30 else's website and put it there just because it looks pretty and everybody
00:37:31 because it looks pretty and everybody

00:37:31 because it looks pretty and everybody has it it has meaning you have to teach
00:37:34 has it it has meaning you have to teach

00:37:34 has it it has meaning you have to teach people and your policy you have to
00:37:35 people and your policy you have to

00:37:35 people and your policy you have to enforce it if you don't in Texas the
00:37:39 enforce it if you don't in Texas the

00:37:39 enforce it if you don't in Texas the state attorney general will get you for
00:37:41 state attorney general will get you for

00:37:41 state attorney general will get you for deceptive and unfair trade practices s
00:37:43 deceptive and unfair trade practices s

00:37:43 deceptive and unfair trade practices s will the F as will the FTC if you fall
00:37:47 will the F as will the FTC if you fall

00:37:47 will the F as will the FTC if you fall under their jurisdiction or any of the
00:37:49 under their jurisdiction or any of the

00:37:49 under their jurisdiction or any of the manifold regulators that we have in this
00:37:51 manifold regulators that we have in this

00:37:51 manifold regulators that we have in this country so be very careful take this
00:37:53 country so be very careful take this

00:37:53 country so be very careful take this seriously it doesn't cost much to put
00:37:55 seriously it doesn't cost much to put

00:37:55 seriously it doesn't cost much to put the policy in place I think your
00:37:57 the policy in place I think your

00:37:57 the policy in place I think your software our IT platform providers can
00:37:59 software our IT platform providers can

00:37:59 software our IT platform providers can probably give you a head start there are
00:38:01 probably give you a head start there are

00:38:01 probably give you a head start there are bunch of forums out on the system and on
00:38:04 bunch of forums out on the system and on

00:38:04 bunch of forums out on the system and on the web that some of your industry
00:38:06 the web that some of your industry

00:38:06 the web that some of your industry groups may give to you so really what
00:38:08 groups may give to you so really what

00:38:08 groups may give to you so really what you need an attorney for sometimes it's
00:38:09 you need an attorney for sometimes it's

00:38:09 you need an attorney for sometimes it's just reviewing it tailoring it and
00:38:11 just reviewing it tailoring it and

00:38:11 just reviewing it tailoring it and you'll be good but but be careful
00:38:14 you'll be good but but be careful

00:38:14 you'll be good but but be careful because these tricks that we're talking
00:38:17 because these tricks that we're talking

00:38:17 because these tricks that we're talking about today can happen to anybody
00:38:19 about today can happen to anybody

00:38:19 about today can happen to anybody yeah and they end up getting you in the
00:38:22 yeah and they end up getting you in the

00:38:22 yeah and they end up getting you in the day where you're really busy you had a
00:38:25 day where you're really busy you had a

00:38:25 day where you're really busy you had a flat tire in your car that morning
00:38:26 flat tire in your car that morning

00:38:27 flat tire in your car that morning you're running behind you've got a
00:38:28 you're running behind you've got a

00:38:28 you're running behind you've got a graduation to go to for one of your kids
00:38:30 graduation to go to for one of your kids

00:38:30 graduation to go to for one of your kids in the evening for school and you
00:38:33 in the evening for school and you

00:38:33 in the evening for school and you normally would do all the right things
00:38:35 normally would do all the right things

00:38:35 normally would do all the right things but
00:38:36 but

00:38:36 but in that day where you're behind and
00:38:37 in that day where you're behind and

00:38:37 in that day where you're behind and you're trying to go faster that's when
00:38:39 you're trying to go faster that's when

00:38:39 you're trying to go faster that's when it happens so if you've got a big
00:38:41 it happens so if you've got a big

00:38:41 it happens so if you've got a big important thing and you are in that
00:38:43 important thing and you are in that

00:38:43 important thing and you are in that hurry you still stop take the time or if
00:38:47 hurry you still stop take the time or if

00:38:47 hurry you still stop take the time or if it doesn't absolutely have to be done
00:38:48 it doesn't absolutely have to be done

00:38:48 it doesn't absolutely have to be done that day where you're rushed or stressed
00:38:50 that day where you're rushed or stressed

00:38:50 that day where you're rushed or stressed out for whatever reason punt it to the
00:38:52 out for whatever reason punt it to the

00:38:52 out for whatever reason punt it to the next day one of the ones with attorneys
00:38:54 next day one of the ones with attorneys

00:38:54 next day one of the ones with attorneys we see on a fairly regular basis so
00:38:57 we see on a fairly regular basis so

00:38:57 we see on a fairly regular basis so especially like with job so he's an
00:39:00 especially like with job so he's an

00:39:00 especially like with job so he's an attorney of record on a public court
00:39:01 attorney of record on a public court

00:39:01 attorney of record on a public court filing he's got another attorney that is
00:39:04 filing he's got another attorney that is

00:39:04 filing he's got another attorney that is opposing counsel that's a public filing
00:39:06 opposing counsel that's a public filing

00:39:06 opposing counsel that's a public filing so these criminals now are going through
00:39:08 so these criminals now are going through

00:39:08 so these criminals now are going through and they'll spoof an email from job's
00:39:11 and they'll spoof an email from job's

00:39:11 and they'll spoof an email from job's opposing counsel going hey here's some
00:39:12 opposing counsel going hey here's some

00:39:12 opposing counsel going hey here's some discovery documents and with a link and
00:39:14 discovery documents and with a link and

00:39:14 discovery documents and with a link and they've got an email coming from
00:39:16 they've got an email coming from

00:39:16 they've got an email coming from spoofing from job to that other
00:39:18 spoofing from job to that other

00:39:18 spoofing from job to that other attorneys so you know you're like I'm
00:39:19 attorneys so you know you're like I'm

00:39:19 attorneys so you know you're like I'm working with them right now there's a
00:39:21 working with them right now there's a

00:39:21 working with them right now there's a case it would be reasonable they're
00:39:22 case it would be reasonable they're

00:39:22 case it would be reasonable they're sending me discovery documents or here's
00:39:24 sending me discovery documents or here's

00:39:24 sending me discovery documents or here's a motion to settle or settlement offer
00:39:26 a motion to settle or settlement offer

00:39:26 a motion to settle or settlement offer or whatever else please click on this
00:39:27 or whatever else please click on this

00:39:27 or whatever else please click on this link
00:39:28 link

00:39:28 link so really hover over double check that
00:39:30 so really hover over double check that

00:39:30 so really hover over double check that one these attackers are sophisticated so
00:39:33 one these attackers are sophisticated so

00:39:33 one these attackers are sophisticated so and they're using all forms of public
00:39:36 and they're using all forms of public

00:39:36 and they're using all forms of public information out there to figure out how
00:39:39 information out there to figure out how

00:39:39 information out there to figure out how to make those messages something that's
00:39:42 to make those messages something that's

00:39:42 to make those messages something that's not just about a Nigerian prince anymore
00:39:44 not just about a Nigerian prince anymore

00:39:44 not just about a Nigerian prince anymore so like this is the days of the kind of
00:39:47 so like this is the days of the kind of

00:39:47 so like this is the days of the kind of mass unsophisticated phishing they're
00:39:50 mass unsophisticated phishing they're

00:39:50 mass unsophisticated phishing they're over these are very targeted very
00:39:52 over these are very targeted very

00:39:52 over these are very targeted very relevant and very believable
00:39:55 relevant and very believable

00:39:55 relevant and very believable so if you a company it can cost you even
00:39:58 so if you a company it can cost you even

00:39:58 so if you a company it can cost you even more than just the damages you know Joe
00:40:00 more than just the damages you know Joe

00:40:00 more than just the damages you know Joe was just talking about the attorney's
00:40:03 was just talking about the attorney's

00:40:03 was just talking about the attorney's fees and the in the title company cases
00:40:05 fees and the in the title company cases

00:40:05 fees and the in the title company cases and the actual money that the poor
00:40:08 and the actual money that the poor

00:40:08 and the actual money that the poor plaintiff is out but that's not
00:40:10 plaintiff is out but that's not

00:40:10 plaintiff is out but that's not everything you can get fined by the
00:40:12 everything you can get fined by the

00:40:12 everything you can get fined by the states by a regulator and if you're
00:40:15 states by a regulator and if you're

00:40:15 states by a regulator and if you're unlucky enough if you're reaching into
00:40:17 unlucky enough if you're reaching into

00:40:17 unlucky enough if you're reaching into the European Union if you're selling
00:40:20 the European Union if you're selling

00:40:20 the European Union if you're selling anything in the European Union goods or
00:40:21 anything in the European Union goods or

00:40:22 anything in the European Union goods or services or you affirmative lis track
00:40:24 services or you affirmative lis track

00:40:24 services or you affirmative lis track European data subjects those there's a
00:40:27 European data subjects those there's a

00:40:27 European data subjects those there's a persons that are residing in the
00:40:29 persons that are residing in the

00:40:29 persons that are residing in the European Union and you have a data
00:40:31 European Union and you have a data

00:40:31 European Union and you have a data breach you could face incredible fines
00:40:33 breach you could face incredible fines

00:40:34 breach you could face incredible fines now in Texas our data breach laws that
00:40:36 now in Texas our data breach laws that

00:40:36 now in Texas our data breach laws that have capped at a quarter of a million
00:40:37 have capped at a quarter of a million

00:40:37 have capped at a quarter of a million dollars in the aggregate it really
00:40:40 dollars in the aggregate it really

00:40:40 dollars in the aggregate it really depends by state and jurisdiction but in
00:40:44 depends by state and jurisdiction but in

00:40:44 depends by state and jurisdiction but in Europe if you have a data breach
00:40:48 Europe if you have a data breach

00:40:48 Europe if you have a data breach and it involves certain data and a
00:40:52 and it involves certain data and a

00:40:52 and it involves certain data and a certain critical mass folks
00:40:54 certain critical mass folks

00:40:54 certain critical mass folks this could get awfully expensive the
00:40:57 this could get awfully expensive the

00:40:57 this could get awfully expensive the fines in Europe are uncapped for the
00:40:59 fines in Europe are uncapped for the

00:40:59 fines in Europe are uncapped for the maximum violation set 20 million euros
00:41:02 maximum violation set 20 million euros

00:41:02 maximum violation set 20 million euros or 4% of your annual gross revenue from
00:41:06 or 4% of your annual gross revenue from

00:41:06 or 4% of your annual gross revenue from the prior year and that means whichever
00:41:08 the prior year and that means whichever

00:41:08 the prior year and that means whichever whichever is bigger yeah so this is
00:41:11 whichever is bigger yeah so this is

00:41:11 whichever is bigger yeah so this is really scary and I mean when we look in
00:41:15 really scary and I mean when we look in

00:41:15 really scary and I mean when we look in the US the FTC when they've been sort of
00:41:17 the US the FTC when they've been sort of

00:41:17 the US the FTC when they've been sort of slapping people's risk speed uber or
00:41:19 slapping people's risk speed uber or

00:41:19 slapping people's risk speed uber or Google or whoever and everybody's been
00:41:21 Google or whoever and everybody's been

00:41:21 Google or whoever and everybody's been sort of on that consent decree list you
00:41:24 sort of on that consent decree list you

00:41:24 sort of on that consent decree list you know you're talking about 20 million
00:41:25 know you're talking about 20 million

00:41:25 know you're talking about 20 million here 25 million there but these are
00:41:27 here 25 million there but these are

00:41:27 here 25 million there but these are super big billions and billions of
00:41:29 super big billions and billions of

00:41:29 super big billions and billions of dollars companies but folks if you're a
00:41:31 dollars companies but folks if you're a

00:41:31 dollars companies but folks if you're a small and medium-sized business 20
00:41:34 small and medium-sized business 20

00:41:34 small and medium-sized business 20 million euros lawton that's probably the
00:41:36 million euros lawton that's probably the

00:41:36 million euros lawton that's probably the LA Times or whichever newspaper that was
00:41:39 LA Times or whichever newspaper that was

00:41:39 LA Times or whichever newspaper that was that you kind of understand why they
00:41:40 that you kind of understand why they

00:41:40 that you kind of understand why they would be blocking access to the European
00:41:42 would be blocking access to the European

00:41:42 would be blocking access to the European customers yeah I mean that's that's more
00:41:45 customers yeah I mean that's that's more

00:41:45 customers yeah I mean that's that's more than they'll make an advertising revenue
00:41:47 than they'll make an advertising revenue

00:41:47 than they'll make an advertising revenue for their European subscribers are more
00:41:49 for their European subscribers are more

00:41:49 for their European subscribers are more than they're making in European
00:41:50 than they're making in European

00:41:50 than they're making in European subscriptions likely that's they might
00:41:53 subscriptions likely that's they might

00:41:53 subscriptions likely that's they might be making more revenue but they're not
00:41:54 be making more revenue but they're not

00:41:54 be making more revenue but they're not making more than 20 million euro in
00:41:55 making more than 20 million euro in

00:41:55 making more than 20 million euro in profit likely as the LA times from
00:41:58 profit likely as the LA times from

00:41:58 profit likely as the LA times from european subscribers i don't if they are
00:42:00 european subscribers i don't if they are

00:42:00 european subscribers i don't if they are a public company i don't look at their
00:42:02 a public company i don't look at their

00:42:02 a public company i don't look at their financials so i'm hypothetically
00:42:03 financials so i'm hypothetically

00:42:03 financials so i'm hypothetically guessing right now but believable that's
00:42:06 guessing right now but believable that's

00:42:06 guessing right now but believable that's a lot of newspaper and digital
00:42:08 a lot of newspaper and digital

00:42:08 a lot of newspaper and digital subscriptions to get to 20 million in
00:42:09 subscriptions to get to 20 million in

00:42:09 subscriptions to get to 20 million in profit from a litigation time frame on
00:42:12 profit from a litigation time frame on

00:42:12 profit from a litigation time frame on here so let's talk a little bit about
00:42:14 here so let's talk a little bit about

00:42:14 here so let's talk a little bit about this for folks so grandparents find out
00:42:17 this for folks so grandparents find out

00:42:17 this for folks so grandparents find out that they aren't getting their dream
00:42:19 that they aren't getting their dream

00:42:19 that they aren't getting their dream home closings gone awry so let's from
00:42:23 home closings gone awry so let's from

00:42:23 home closings gone awry so let's from that point in time how long was it until
00:42:27 that point in time how long was it until

00:42:27 that point in time how long was it until things were kind of resolved for them
00:42:29 things were kind of resolved for them

00:42:29 things were kind of resolved for them and and what sort of steps is someone
00:42:31 and and what sort of steps is someone

00:42:31 and and what sort of steps is someone like that end up having to go through I
00:42:33 like that end up having to go through I

00:42:33 like that end up having to go through I mean I I think you're looking at on the
00:42:37 mean I I think you're looking at on the

00:42:37 mean I I think you're looking at on the low end six months before you get to a
00:42:41 low end six months before you get to a

00:42:41 low end six months before you get to a settlement phase where someone was going
00:42:43 settlement phase where someone was going

00:42:43 settlement phase where someone was going to actually pay you money if you're
00:42:45 to actually pay you money if you're

00:42:45 to actually pay you money if you're looking at a trial if you could get it
00:42:48 looking at a trial if you could get it

00:42:48 looking at a trial if you could get it before a jury within a year and that'd
00:42:50 before a jury within a year and that'd

00:42:50 before a jury within a year and that'd be very quick and unfortunately for
00:42:52 be very quick and unfortunately for

00:42:52 be very quick and unfortunately for these people you know that their process
00:42:54 these people you know that their process

00:42:54 these people you know that their process you know your first step you realize
00:42:55 you know your first step you realize

00:42:55 you know your first step you realize what's happened you send a letter before
00:42:58 what's happened you send a letter before

00:42:58 what's happened you send a letter before you have an attorney two title companies
00:43:00 you have an attorney two title companies

00:43:00 you have an attorney two title companies saying hey this is what and captain
00:43:02 saying hey this is what and captain

00:43:02 saying hey this is what and captain let's try and make this right you have
00:43:04 let's try and make this right you have

00:43:04 let's try and make this right you have to go through the process of finding and
00:43:05 to go through the process of finding and

00:43:05 to go through the process of finding and hiring an attorney you know if you're
00:43:08 hiring an attorney you know if you're

00:43:08 hiring an attorney you know if you're the consumers in this situation you
00:43:10 the consumers in this situation you

00:43:10 the consumers in this situation you probably had to pay that attorney a
00:43:11 probably had to pay that attorney a

00:43:11 probably had to pay that attorney a retainer of thousands of dollars up
00:43:13 retainer of thousands of dollars up

00:43:13 retainer of thousands of dollars up front so you're already you know you're
00:43:16 front so you're already you know you're

00:43:16 front so you're already you know you're already out of pocket that your life
00:43:17 already out of pocket that your life

00:43:17 already out of pocket that your life savings then you have to spend even more
00:43:19 savings then you have to spend even more

00:43:19 savings then you have to spend even more money to hire an attorney there's
00:43:22 money to hire an attorney there's

00:43:22 money to hire an attorney there's usually a demand letter process before
00:43:23 usually a demand letter process before

00:43:23 usually a demand letter process before suit you file the lawsuit
00:43:27 suit you file the lawsuit

00:43:27 suit you file the lawsuit there's deadlines to file an answer it
00:43:28 there's deadlines to file an answer it

00:43:28 there's deadlines to file an answer it just all takes time and it stacks up and
00:43:32 just all takes time and it stacks up and

00:43:32 just all takes time and it stacks up and before you can even really get to a
00:43:34 before you can even really get to a

00:43:34 before you can even really get to a point of a resolution a months and
00:43:37 point of a resolution a months and

00:43:37 point of a resolution a months and months are going to have passed and
00:43:39 months are going to have passed and

00:43:39 months are going to have passed and unfortunately in these types of cases
00:43:41 unfortunately in these types of cases

00:43:41 unfortunately in these types of cases you also have the added expense of
00:43:43 you also have the added expense of

00:43:43 you also have the added expense of paying for a cyber security expert to
00:43:46 paying for a cyber security expert to

00:43:46 paying for a cyber security expert to actually trace what happened it's not
00:43:47 actually trace what happened it's not

00:43:47 actually trace what happened it's not it's not enough for me as the attorney
00:43:49 it's not enough for me as the attorney

00:43:49 it's not enough for me as the attorney to say well it was clearly your email is
00:43:51 to say well it was clearly your email is

00:43:51 to say well it was clearly your email is hat you have to prove it and yes and
00:43:53 hat you have to prove it and yes and

00:43:53 hat you have to prove it and yes and that goes through and traces the IP
00:43:56 that goes through and traces the IP

00:43:56 that goes through and traces the IP addresses of the the sender of all the
00:43:58 addresses of the the sender of all the

00:43:58 addresses of the the sender of all the emails compared the language to try and
00:44:01 emails compared the language to try and

00:44:01 emails compared the language to try and determine which emails were spoofed
00:44:02 determine which emails were spoofed

00:44:02 determine which emails were spoofed which ones were real and all that's just
00:44:05 which ones were real and all that's just

00:44:05 which ones were real and all that's just a lot of time and money that could have
00:44:09 a lot of time and money that could have

00:44:09 a lot of time and money that could have hopefully been prevented with just some
00:44:11 hopefully been prevented with just some

00:44:11 hopefully been prevented with just some better more careful practices on the
00:44:13 better more careful practices on the

00:44:13 better more careful practices on the front end yeah so six months in the sort
00:44:18 front end yeah so six months in the sort

00:44:18 front end yeah so six months in the sort of best case they solve things out with
00:44:20 of best case they solve things out with

00:44:20 of best case they solve things out with a settlement a year or more on the the
00:44:24 a settlement a year or more on the the

00:44:24 a settlement a year or more on the the trial side of things and then you're
00:44:27 trial side of things and then you're

00:44:27 trial side of things and then you're gonna be out of pocket somebody even if
00:44:28 gonna be out of pocket somebody even if

00:44:28 gonna be out of pocket somebody even if you you if it's a plaintiff they're come
00:44:31 you you if it's a plaintiff they're come

00:44:31 you you if it's a plaintiff they're come out and prevail at the end and even get
00:44:33 out and prevail at the end and even get

00:44:33 out and prevail at the end and even get your attorneys fees awarded the you had
00:44:35 your attorneys fees awarded the you had

00:44:35 your attorneys fees awarded the you had to have some money to work through this
00:44:37 to have some money to work through this

00:44:37 to have some money to work through this most likely along the way I mean I guess
00:44:41 most likely along the way I mean I guess

00:44:41 most likely along the way I mean I guess in some civil litigation you could have
00:44:43 in some civil litigation you could have

00:44:43 in some civil litigation you could have a contingency but that's in a complex
00:44:46 a contingency but that's in a complex

00:44:46 a contingency but that's in a complex case like this that may be difficult to
00:44:48 case like this that may be difficult to

00:44:48 case like this that may be difficult to get someone to take it on a contingency
00:44:51 get someone to take it on a contingency

00:44:51 get someone to take it on a contingency as this there's not very clear
00:44:55 as this there's not very clear

00:44:55 as this there's not very clear likelihood of what the outcome may be
00:44:58 likelihood of what the outcome may be

00:44:58 likelihood of what the outcome may be this is one I guess is you probably have
00:45:01 this is one I guess is you probably have

00:45:01 this is one I guess is you probably have advising clients you're like the jury
00:45:03 advising clients you're like the jury

00:45:03 advising clients you're like the jury could hold all sorts of different people
00:45:05 could hold all sorts of different people

00:45:05 could hold all sorts of different people accountable on this one there's no like
00:45:07 accountable on this one there's no like

00:45:07 accountable on this one there's no like in a in in a reasonable case in front of
00:45:10 in a in in a reasonable case in front of

00:45:10 in a in in a reasonable case in front of a reasonable jury this is what's going
00:45:11 a reasonable jury this is what's going

00:45:11 a reasonable jury this is what's going to happen but
00:45:11 to happen but

00:45:11 to happen but all the cyber stuff is so so new I mean
00:45:14 all the cyber stuff is so so new I mean

00:45:14 all the cyber stuff is so so new I mean at the the state court level they're
00:45:17 at the the state court level they're

00:45:17 at the the state court level they're seeing many more auto accident claims
00:45:22 seeing many more auto accident claims

00:45:22 seeing many more auto accident claims they're seeing a lot of family law
00:45:25 they're seeing a lot of family law

00:45:25 they're seeing a lot of family law they're seeing a lot of other civil
00:45:28 they're seeing a lot of other civil

00:45:28 they're seeing a lot of other civil things that don't have anything to do
00:45:30 things that don't have anything to do

00:45:30 things that don't have anything to do with cybersecurity on a regular basis
00:45:32 with cybersecurity on a regular basis

00:45:32 with cybersecurity on a regular basis workman's comp claims all sorts of other
00:45:35 workman's comp claims all sorts of other

00:45:35 workman's comp claims all sorts of other employment law all those other things
00:45:37 employment law all those other things

00:45:37 employment law all those other things all go in front of the same judge so
00:45:39 all go in front of the same judge so

00:45:39 all go in front of the same judge so this is one as well where you're going
00:45:41 this is one as well where you're going

00:45:41 this is one as well where you're going well isn't there a cyber security
00:45:42 well isn't there a cyber security

00:45:42 well isn't there a cyber security specialist court in the state and my
00:45:45 specialist court in the state and my

00:45:45 specialist court in the state and my understanding there isn't there's not
00:45:47 understanding there isn't there's not

00:45:47 understanding there isn't there's not and you know your jury at the end of the
00:45:49 and you know your jury at the end of the

00:45:49 and you know your jury at the end of the day this can be analyzing deciding these
00:45:52 day this can be analyzing deciding these

00:45:52 day this can be analyzing deciding these issues or they're gonna be kind of a
00:45:54 issues or they're gonna be kind of a

00:45:54 issues or they're gonna be kind of a snapshot of the community you live in so
00:45:56 snapshot of the community you live in so

00:45:56 snapshot of the community you live in so your jury is gonna have a teacher maybe
00:45:59 your jury is gonna have a teacher maybe

00:45:59 your jury is gonna have a teacher maybe a firefighter
00:46:00 a firefighter

00:46:00 a firefighter maybe a busboy from a local restaurant
00:46:02 maybe a busboy from a local restaurant

00:46:02 maybe a busboy from a local restaurant that's having them this a week of work
00:46:04 that's having them this a week of work

00:46:04 that's having them this a week of work really without pay to sit here and
00:46:06 really without pay to sit here and

00:46:06 really without pay to sit here and listen to your drear problems about
00:46:08 listen to your drear problems about

00:46:08 listen to your drear problems about what's happened and there's gonna be
00:46:10 what's happened and there's gonna be

00:46:10 what's happened and there's gonna be varying levels of sophistic
00:46:12 varying levels of sophistic

00:46:12 varying levels of sophistic sophistication trying to decide very
00:46:14 sophistication trying to decide very

00:46:14 sophistication trying to decide very complex issues and there's really no
00:46:18 complex issues and there's really no

00:46:18 complex issues and there's really no predictability on that yeah say you're
00:46:20 predictability on that yeah say you're

00:46:20 predictability on that yeah say you're most likely not going to have someone
00:46:22 most likely not going to have someone

00:46:22 most likely not going to have someone like me or maybe somebody that works in
00:46:24 like me or maybe somebody that works in

00:46:24 like me or maybe somebody that works in the FBI cybercrime most likely not going
00:46:27 the FBI cybercrime most likely not going

00:46:27 the FBI cybercrime most likely not going to end up on that jury one of the
00:46:28 to end up on that jury one of the

00:46:28 to end up on that jury one of the attorneys on one side of the others not
00:46:30 attorneys on one side of the others not

00:46:30 attorneys on one side of the others not gonna want that person on the trial in
00:46:32 gonna want that person on the trial in

00:46:32 gonna want that person on the trial in Texas you're allowed to strike a certain
00:46:34 Texas you're allowed to strike a certain

00:46:34 Texas you're allowed to strike a certain number of juries and unfortunately if
00:46:37 number of juries and unfortunately if

00:46:37 number of juries and unfortunately if you're in the jury pool someone would
00:46:38 you're in the jury pool someone would

00:46:38 you're in the jury pool someone would probably strike you because you'd be
00:46:40 probably strike you because you'd be

00:46:40 probably strike you because you'd be able to explain everything better than
00:46:41 able to explain everything better than

00:46:41 able to explain everything better than the attorneys good potentially to the
00:46:43 the attorneys good potentially to the

00:46:43 the attorneys good potentially to the jury yeah
00:46:44 jury yeah

00:46:44 jury yeah so as this were we're going through this
00:46:48 so as this were we're going through this

00:46:48 so as this were we're going through this I mean you've got folks out there with a
00:46:53 I mean you've got folks out there with a

00:46:53 I mean you've got folks out there with a wide variety of different state level
00:46:55 wide variety of different state level

00:46:55 wide variety of different state level regulations here in the u.s. maybe we've
00:46:58 regulations here in the u.s. maybe we've

00:46:59 regulations here in the u.s. maybe we've got some basics we've talked about you
00:47:01 got some basics we've talked about you

00:47:01 got some basics we've talked about you should have a privacy policy and a
00:47:02 should have a privacy policy and a

00:47:02 should have a privacy policy and a website one of the things we didn't talk
00:47:04 website one of the things we didn't talk

00:47:04 website one of the things we didn't talk about though is kind of a business
00:47:06 about though is kind of a business

00:47:06 about though is kind of a business continuity planning any of those things
00:47:08 continuity planning any of those things

00:47:08 continuity planning any of those things yet so we've got a few minutes here to
00:47:10 yet so we've got a few minutes here to

00:47:10 yet so we've got a few minutes here to wrap up louis if you could help folks so
00:47:13 wrap up louis if you could help folks so

00:47:13 wrap up louis if you could help folks so like these things have happened and this
00:47:15 like these things have happened and this

00:47:15 like these things have happened and this is what that business continuity
00:47:16 is what that business continuity

00:47:16 is what that business continuity planning policy is how you deal with it
00:47:17 planning policy is how you deal with it

00:47:17 planning policy is how you deal with it I guess so I think one of the the key
00:47:20 I guess so I think one of the the key

00:47:20 I guess so I think one of the the key factors businesses worry about is if
00:47:23 factors businesses worry about is if

00:47:23 factors businesses worry about is if their website is down right if they're
00:47:24 their website is down right if they're

00:47:24 their website is down right if they're making money through the
00:47:25 making money through the

00:47:25 making money through the website then every minute that website
00:47:28 website then every minute that website

00:47:28 website then every minute that website is down it's the loss of money directly
00:47:30 is down it's the loss of money directly

00:47:30 is down it's the loss of money directly to their bottom line what do you do you
00:47:34 to their bottom line what do you do you

00:47:34 to their bottom line what do you do you can have multiple service providers
00:47:35 can have multiple service providers

00:47:35 can have multiple service providers that's not really very practical
00:47:38 that's not really very practical

00:47:38 that's not really very practical I mean interoperability issues left
00:47:42 I mean interoperability issues left

00:47:42 I mean interoperability issues left alone on the IT side but I mean just
00:47:45 alone on the IT side but I mean just

00:47:45 alone on the IT side but I mean just administering that if you're a small
00:47:46 administering that if you're a small

00:47:46 administering that if you're a small business so you don't want to deal with
00:47:47 business so you don't want to deal with

00:47:47 business so you don't want to deal with it so what you need to do you talk to
00:47:49 it so what you need to do you talk to

00:47:49 it so what you need to do you talk to your service providers you know you need
00:47:51 your service providers you know you need

00:47:51 your service providers you know you need to talk about business continuity
00:47:53 to talk about business continuity

00:47:53 to talk about business continuity procedures you need to put them in your
00:47:55 procedures you need to put them in your

00:47:55 procedures you need to put them in your contracts folks you need to read those
00:47:57 contracts folks you need to read those

00:47:57 contracts folks you need to read those contracts now a lot of stuff that's
00:47:58 contracts now a lot of stuff that's

00:47:58 contracts now a lot of stuff that's coming down from the service providers
00:48:00 coming down from the service providers

00:48:00 coming down from the service providers is going to be take it or leave it
00:48:02 is going to be take it or leave it

00:48:02 is going to be take it or leave it that's just the nature of the business
00:48:03 that's just the nature of the business

00:48:03 that's just the nature of the business depending on how much you pay for a
00:48:05 depending on how much you pay for a

00:48:05 depending on how much you pay for a product you're gonna get what you pay
00:48:07 product you're gonna get what you pay

00:48:07 product you're gonna get what you pay for so but there are and I think you
00:48:11 for so but there are and I think you

00:48:11 for so but there are and I think you know Brett can attest to that because in
00:48:13 know Brett can attest to that because in

00:48:13 know Brett can attest to that because in his day job he offers these types of
00:48:15 his day job he offers these types of

00:48:15 his day job he offers these types of services you can have a gradiated
00:48:20


00:48:20
platform where if you pay more you get
00:48:22 platform where if you pay more you get

00:48:22 platform where if you pay more you get more security
00:48:23 more security

00:48:23 more security you got more add-ons you're more
00:48:25 you got more add-ons you're more

00:48:25 you got more add-ons you're more protected your business continuity is
00:48:27 protected your business continuity is

00:48:27 protected your business continuity is ensured you know you're gonna have
00:48:28 ensured you know you're gonna have

00:48:28 ensured you know you're gonna have backup that's in your contract folks you
00:48:31 backup that's in your contract folks you

00:48:31 backup that's in your contract folks you need to look at the contract and before
00:48:33 need to look at the contract and before

00:48:34 need to look at the contract and before you go to a service provider in the
00:48:36 you go to a service provider in the

00:48:36 you go to a service provider in the internet space do some diligence you
00:48:39 internet space do some diligence you

00:48:39 internet space do some diligence you know try to find out about other
00:48:40 know try to find out about other

00:48:40 know try to find out about other customers do some digging around on the
00:48:42 customers do some digging around on the

00:48:42 customers do some digging around on the Internet of what people say about these
00:48:44 Internet of what people say about these

00:48:44 Internet of what people say about these people and their platform and their
00:48:46 people and their platform and their

00:48:46 people and their platform and their storage and their contracts and read
00:48:48 storage and their contracts and read

00:48:48 storage and their contracts and read your contracts and and honestly if you
00:48:51 your contracts and and honestly if you

00:48:51 your contracts and and honestly if you go to a local attorney here in town to
00:48:53 go to a local attorney here in town to

00:48:53 go to a local attorney here in town to just to review an agreement you don't
00:48:54 just to review an agreement you don't

00:48:54 just to review an agreement you don't have to go to the big law firms of New
00:48:56 have to go to the big law firms of New

00:48:56 have to go to the big law firms of New York you know that doesn't cost you much
00:48:59 York you know that doesn't cost you much

00:48:59 York you know that doesn't cost you much if you don't have your in-house lawyer I
00:49:01 if you don't have your in-house lawyer I

00:49:01 if you don't have your in-house lawyer I mean it's really worth it because we
00:49:04 mean it's really worth it because we

00:49:04 mean it's really worth it because we deal with this a lot more than you guys
00:49:06 deal with this a lot more than you guys

00:49:06 deal with this a lot more than you guys do we see a lot more so by that token
00:49:09 do we see a lot more so by that token

00:49:09 do we see a lot more so by that token alone we'll be able to hone on things
00:49:11 alone we'll be able to hone on things

00:49:11 alone we'll be able to hone on things that own in on things that may not be
00:49:13 that own in on things that may not be

00:49:13 that own in on things that may not be obvious to you yeah and if their Terms
00:49:17 obvious to you yeah and if their Terms

00:49:17 obvious to you yeah and if their Terms of Service and their privacy policy are
00:49:19 of Service and their privacy policy are

00:49:19 of Service and their privacy policy are not in clear legible English where you
00:49:22 not in clear legible English where you

00:49:22 not in clear legible English where you don't have to be an attorney to have
00:49:23 don't have to be an attorney to have

00:49:23 don't have to be an attorney to have some basic comprehension
00:49:26 some basic comprehension

00:49:26 some basic comprehension my general non-legal opinion is they may
00:49:30 my general non-legal opinion is they may

00:49:30 my general non-legal opinion is they may be trying to hide something they may a
00:49:31 be trying to hide something they may a

00:49:31 be trying to hide something they may a be out of date this place like
00:49:33 be out of date this place like

00:49:33 be out of date this place like regulation like gdpr requires the
00:49:35 regulation like gdpr requires the

00:49:35 regulation like gdpr requires the privacy policy to be readable by a
00:49:37 privacy policy to be readable by a

00:49:37 privacy policy to be readable by a non-attorney so you get through some of
00:49:39 non-attorney so you get through some of

00:49:39 non-attorney so you get through some of the stuff now they should be making it
00:49:41 the stuff now they should be making it

00:49:41 the stuff now they should be making it simple these click-through agreements
00:49:43 simple these click-through agreements

00:49:43 simple these click-through agreements the days of them being 80 pages long
00:49:45 the days of them being 80 pages long

00:49:45 the days of them being 80 pages long with stuff buried on page 67 that you
00:49:48 with stuff buried on page 67 that you

00:49:48 with stuff buried on page 67 that you can't scroll down through in the little
00:49:49 can't scroll down through in the little

00:49:49 can't scroll down through in the little pop-up box that stuff's starting to
00:49:52 pop-up box that stuff's starting to

00:49:52 pop-up box that stuff's starting to change online it's getting better and
00:49:54 change online it's getting better and

00:49:54 change online it's getting better and you should ask your providers and kind
00:49:56 you should ask your providers and kind

00:49:56 you should ask your providers and kind of try to hold them accountable to
00:49:58 of try to hold them accountable to

00:49:58 of try to hold them accountable to making things more clear